Stuart Santiago wrote:
unfortunately, ito ang attitude ni nick-not-chief:
I personally believe that the readers should be able to discern for themselves with regards to many issues..
…which is like washing his hands of any responsibility for anything. e ano kung walang karapatan ang ilang taga-fv to speak for filipinos. e ano kung walang karapatan kahit sino na mang-insulto o mambastos. wtf. is this the same nick who stood up and accused malu fernandez of stuff that some of his bloggers are now accused of? ah, but nick is not the chief, there is no chief.
The gist of my opinion is this: I agree with Nick’s position.
Here’s why:
“Living with this Free Speech, sometimes You get offended.”
Stuart goes on to say:
the kind of leader who at the very least would impose standards of honesty and civility. otherwise fv is suspect as a source of credible information and rational opinion, because how can anyone tell that the good ones have not been infected by the bad ones? all it takes is one rotten appleto spoil the barrel. three or four speeds up the process.
We’re all adults here right?
Aaron Sorkin, the guy who wrote The West Wing had this Television program called Studio 60 On the Sunset Strip. During the pilot, one of the characters he created, Wes Mendell had this to say about Free Speech, political satire and the state of our collective Intelligence. It is particularly smart satire:
The nature of blogging is that the reader is smart enough to judge for himself or herself when something is crap or not. It’s called discernment. It’s called, having a brain. It is called free will. You got a choice. People don’t have to read it. People don’t have to subscribe to it if it was really junk. It’s like TV. You don’t have to watch crappy TV. You got a choice.
Personally speaking, I don’t follow the thread [strikeout: you've] Stuart mentioned. It doesn’t interest me. Reyna Elena does not impress me. Reyna Elena is just trolling.
I speak as a lowly contributor: Filipino Voices isn’t here to hold your hand (regulate) nor cuddle the reader from the Internet. You got a brain that you use to read as well as to use before you comment. This site has rarely banned anyone from commenting. We’re all adults here right? That said, While Filipino Voices isn’t perfect, we have a comment policy and the site is constantly changing and evolving. I’m sure Nick will be the Voice that will speak of future changes and official stand of the site, when he needs to and you’ll know right then and there that that’s impact.
Popularity: 1% [?]
You mean cOddled?
yes, but both can work…:)
Cuddle the reader… whaa hahaha! Anyone cuddles me except the sexy women here will be in some sort of trouble.
Oh my. And here I’ve been wanting to get to know you better too. Damn. No chance then?
One thing is certain. All humans on this planet need a Teddy bear.
Yep! The world owes Teddy Roosevelt a lot for the Teddy Bear!
Hm. Dakota Fanning has grown up to be cuddly…
http://www.filmindustry.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/dakota-fanning-tyg-000730.jpg
Last three comments above. I think those are examples of what Angela is talking about.
One remark about Cocoy’s spelling is enough. The following three merely turn it into a Tito-Vic-and-Joey level gag.
Hey, re-used your metaphor below.
but surely you believe in some kind of standards right? you can’t cuss on TV for example. Pornography also.
short of child porn? i’m pretty liberal. also you can’t curse on tv because children might be watching. also, if you mean by standards, with all the gore on evening news, sometimes i wonder if we are kidding ourselves.
A big collective hug to all the bloggers of Filipino Voices and Nick. I may not agree with all of you but it is all good.
thanks momblogger :)
oh, i couldn’t help but comment cocoy. did you mean coddle? to indulge, to spoil? because to cuddle is to hold closely and fondly? the latter involves a concrete physical act, the former an abstract one. that is to say that you don’t physically coddle a person, as you would cuddle her.
having said that, should coddling really be your issue here? you’re the first one to invoke being offended in relation to free speech. and it can only be because you have taken offense, yes?, at what stuartsantiago has written, siding as she does with reynaelena. and yet, in truth, all reynaelena has done is take FV’s writers on, with a daring that’s just so rare in these shores.
because you must admit, and i imagine that you guys know it too, that when you say “Filipino Voices” it is as if you speak for all of us. and that in itself is problematic given the kinds of writers you have and how offensive they can become to non-FV bloggers. you have to realize how it sounds, what it seems like, this whole enterprise that is Filipino Voices. and with the comments and the traffic that many of you individually celebrate, then anyone who has a brain would know that this is about representation. regardless of what you say. even when you deny it.
and speaking of people with brains, the power to discern, and choice. it would do everyone well to realize that sometimes we keep going back to certain blogs precisely because they say the stupidest things, or are so full of themselves, you can’t wait for them to trip on themselves. and then there are blogs that purportedly represent a collective, a whole nation, or the intellectual sector of a country, and you go back because you just might get a sense of what kinds of brains this country has. or not.
choice, shouldn’t be simplified into who has brains and who doesn’t. it should be a matter of the more knowledgeable having a sense of the role they play in changing and keeping public taste(s), and why.
ooh, and that trolling card? you have got to be kidding me, given DJB in your ranks. reynaelena doesn’t deserve to be in that same league, grace and class pa lang talo na si DJB.
and just to answer your question, i imagine that cuddling is a matter of taste. may mga taong mahilig sa yakap, merong mahilig sa halik, meron ding halik sabay hug ang bet.
as for coddling: to presume that FV must coddle the world is to say that you are superior to all of us, and that there are some things we can’t handle. utang na loob. anyone who has a brain would know who is in-over-their-heads here. and who’s just fabulously strolling along the blogosphere.
Good parody there in your latest post. Dapat sana satirical para controversial din.
“reynaelena doesn’t deserve to be in that same league, grace and class pa lang talo na si DJB.”
Whaaaat? I thought blogging is about the exchange of ideas.
“Personally speaking, I don’t follow the thread you’ve Stuart mentioned. It doesn’t interest me. Reyna Elena does not impress me. Reyna Elena is just trolling.”
You forgot to mention Patricio Mangubat. I read that post where he called names kay Reyna Elena. So freaking horrible and disgusting. Mas troll pa talaga ang isang yun. Have you guys forgotten what he wrote back then?? O baka bulag-bulagan kayo?
No wonder, Reyna reacted to a point of — asking for FV bloggers’ credentials. Claiming that you are this and that blah blah then write something like this and that, e talagang magtatanong ang tao sa iyo or inyo.
This is a simple question that requires a simple answer. Mention your credentials. Period. Tapos ang boxing.
As for credibility and credentials: anybody is free to choose /not/ to open Filipino Voices’ url. People do so, well gee, people must be liking what they’re reading. Whether they believe us or not, well they’ve got brains to determine that. While Filipino Voices isn’t perfect, we continuously work behind the scenes to improve.
With regard to Pat, i haven’t seen his post but i’m sure he can speak for himself. As for Filipino Voices as a collective, please see my response to Gabby. I think it addresses your issues with this collaborative blog.
i never, for moment, thought that FV posters/commenters are speaking for filipinos. FV, as the the name implies, represents the myriad voices of the filipino, i.e., the common thoughts, dissensions, contrary points of views, sharing of information, propositions, analysis of issues, and thoughts on ways of solving societal, political, religious and economic problems, among other things, without the distractions of pecuniary considerations. correct me if i’m wrong, nick, but i think, consistent with the classic traditions of professional journalism, FV seeks to teach, inform, entertain, but most of all, to give vent to people’s pent-up emotions within the bounds of civility and legality.
i can see that, for the most part, FV is an orderly blending of voices as in a true choir, rather than a “choir of all tenors”.
Bencard, Thanks.
ina,
I’ve replied to your concerns via the other comments here. i won’t rehash it anymore. I thank you for reading and for commenting. Filipino Voices is continuously changing, redefining this site to appeal to a greater audience. I hope you can find posts here that interest you and I think, I can speak for our tech team, my fellow contributors and Nick in hoping you can engage us in those blog posts.
Thanks Benign0 :D
i did that on purpose and i got the response i was looking. ;)
i really meant, “cuddle” and not coddled. i perfectly know the difference: one is to hug, and one is pamper/treat gently.
I guess you are the sort of writer who can hold back the irresistible urge to make Eat Bulaga the pun. Most Pinoys can’t help the wink wink.
i meant “cuddle” to mean many things.
momblogger got the positive side of what i meant.
seriously now… we’ve so many things to do, to think about to discuss. more important things to converse about and here we are shelling insults at one another. poisonous air you know?
One thing I’m sure abut. Not gonna read back on this. Nah-a.
Thank you. That’s what we should all do, in fact.
just to add to what ina wrote…
its interesting you used that pilot from studio 60 and used to justify choice….
if you watch it, its basically a speech against the dummification of the american audience. but that didnt just happen.
that was a result of freedom of choice. people want to watch what they want. sometimes they don’t want to watch “smart stuff”.
freedom to choose cuts both ways.
this is an interesting parallel to real life. studio 60 was similar to 30 rock. studio 60 was considered to be the smarter show. studio 60 was cancelled. 30 rock is a multiple emmy winner.
Sad but true. hence Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip while it was a hit with the high end income families, didn’t work well with 90% of the audience.
also i read an interesting critique of studio 60. no one wants a sketch show to be self important. we just want it to be funny.
later on, the show became a love story basically…
i am a huge fan of the west wing. i hear that sorkin will write another TV behind the scenes show, this time about a cable pundit. i think this will be better suited for sorkin’s style…
yep. the initial 2, 3 eps were good. the latter ones… degenerated. my next favorite ep of studio 60 was episode 2. loved the Cold Open. hehe.
Sorkin was great when he was taking drugs. i’m not sure if its real but sorkin wrote the first 4 seasons of the west wing by himself.
Some readers need to be coddled. But do you really want the editors and contributors to do that? The blog’s readers and commenters are already doing a pretty good job in regulating the site’s content, IMHO. They arent shy about calling BS on the articles or the comments as they see it. There hasnt been any emergency when Nick has to step in and lay down the law. Nick’s system works.
spot on.
but when renato pacifico kept repeating his comments, didn’t nick threaten to ban him?
also, didnt patricio call reyna names?
also, beningn0, Cat disparage each other all the time right? so much so, that entire threads were hijacked. di ba?
when Jag used to comment, he used to call people names too (leytenian to be specific)
DJB and Bencard also disparage each other.
lets be civil…
Gabby, i can’t disclose what goes on when Filipino Voices crew and Nick discuss all these things, including our comment policy and our posting policies, suffice to say, Nick’s on top of it all.
Neither.
I have never thought FV ever had illusions about “speaking for the Filipino people.”
The Collective is what it says it is Filipino Voices, voices of Filipinos.
There are posts which resonate, posts which with its readers find themselves either in agreement with or find abhorrent.
In the end I submit humbly, the water, or muck, will find its own level.
People, as with MSM, will tune in or tune out.
I myself tune out when civility and decency are no longer in the room.
yep. *nods in agreement*
when a commenter is angry, bias and irrationality rear it’s ugly heads.
Well, plenty of stupid and gullible Filipinos out there who are more than susceptible to being fooled by untruth-mongers and doctors of spin.
Since our country is ruled by the top-notch corrupt, you can bet my whole salary Filipinos will drink muck as easily as water.
Irate:
Save your salary.
A very large number of Filipinos voted for Erap, they not only drunk the muck, they chugged it down with a beer bong.
yeah, thats what angela is saying:
if its a fellow FV blogger is is better to :
1) “myself tune out when civility and decency are no longer in the room.”
OR
2) enforce standards to ensure civility
thats the KEY QUESTION.
sabi ni cocoy, may ginagawa naman daw. its up to u guys.
2) enforce standards to ensure civility
I find this creepy. Of course this is a blog and not society at large but still… Brr-r-r-rrr.
A commenter can be uncivil as long as he or she allows the other fella space to reply. If someone hogs a comment thread for example, not allowing others the space to reply, that’s when I tune out, and Im sure others do so as well. FV is a dialogue, not a monologue.
ah, but one might think of it as fraternal concern… if people belong to a group that has certain goals, can’t that group encourage behavior conducive to achieving these goals? (doesn’t FV have common goals?)
the alternative is, even tho we are “united” in a mission (whatever that is), walang paki-alamanan… which is ironic, considering the existence of common goals…
either is possible, but i would think it would be the former would be more likely…
if people belong to a group that has certain goals, can’t that group encourage behavior conducive to achieving these goals?
Im all for it; the group encouraging behavior conducive to achieving these goals bit. That’s the entire community’s responsibility. If youll notice, I balked at the ‘enforce standards’ bit. The group can encourage more civil behavior by engaging with people who exhibit that — those who are interested in dialogue and not monologue or propaganda — and discourage trollish behavior by ignoring it, if they arent really saying anything.
FV is a grand experiment at self-governance, and so far it’s been a smashing success. Something like Gresham’s Law hasnt been happening despite the occasional trolls, that is, the bad commenters havent driven out the good ones. Youre still here, right, Gabby? ;-)
Jeg,
me too. ;)
There is no Utopia, or Eden, or Heaven, if you will. But if FV turns out to be it, I’ll have to tune out because I’ll die of sheer boredom. On the other hand, hell would be too hot for me. So, if there will be too much government in FV to the point Jeg had described, then I’ll have to tune out too.
Nick’s present government is just right, some tussling and some hustlings lead farther to more exciting moments and experiences, in most instances even drew in the protagonists mutual respect for one another, some to the point of brotherly and sisterly affection. And, Oh, the gems of ideas that one can get, if that’s part of the quest. In my opinion.
But…perhaps there is sour grapes even in heaven. Aside from the rotten apple.
I basically just tune out or choose not to participate. dedma na lang.
As Wayne Dyer said: “Conflict cannot survive without your participation.”
indeed.
Of course, the right word is cuddle. there’s a bunch of onion skinned head lately here. ouch :)
Majority of debates on the internet are of very low quality. Many may think its lacking logic but it may simply be a lack of common sense.
When people devolve into abusive rants, IT DESTROYS COMMUNITY.
IT ALSO DEFEATS THE BEAUTY OF DEBATE AND DISSENT. FV encourages debate and the comments to be “above the fray”. ( THIS IS DEMOCRACY)
Above the fray is how I interpret Nick’s:
However some or few has deviated from the claims being made and has instead focused on the person making the claims.
Now focus on CUDDLE AND CONNECT IT TO THE CAPITALIZE WORDS. :)
kapuy kaayo mo uy. :)
Dapat yung mga kulang sa discernment i-kulong nalang.
kapoy na bitaw!
thank you.
Some bloggers and readers are just so clueless, they need to be clue-deled. :)
You mean club-bered because they are so club-bish nga.
so what happened to Emperor Garlic?
Hubris fly when some bloggers and commenters alike take themselves too seriously. The essence of having fun gets lost while interacting with others in the blogsphere.
A favorite saying: Don’t take yourself so seriously. Nobody else does.’ Nagkukuwentuhan lang tayo dito.
‘Even the dull and the ignorant; they too have a story to tell.’
in the free market of ideas, one has to be competitive. but the competition lies in what makes sense (as opposed to what is absurd) in the mind of the receiver. the messenger must always be distinguished from the message – or there’s gonna be a lot of bloodletting.
yep. true enough.
i hear you :D
Blog Posting is a new media. We dont have any control yet of people
who use it as opportunity to heap insults to other people. We sympathize with those people insulted. Lick your wounds. Do not read
Blog Posts again. Read only newspapers that are controlled by Politicians.
Anyway, we should be all Responsible Blog Posters. Moderate the tone of your Blog Post rhetoric. Nick has nothing to do with this insult.
He is just a Blogger. And maintainer of the Blog Web, Filipino Voices.
Nick also has the power!!!
The power to edit the contents of your blogpost entry, or even to delete the entry completely. Phfffft, gone, kaput.
Ika nga nila, dalawang klase lang ang tao.
1) Nanloloko
2) Nagpapaloko
i read a suggestions (roms?) that there be a disclaimer in the “about” section about opinions being one’s own is a good one…
Gabby, thanks. I think it was Rom’s… i forget. Anyway, I’m sure Nick or one of the Tech Team is reading this page and is taking a note. I’ll bring this to their attention in private too, just in case. While I can’t tell you about our discussions in private, I think I can disclose that there is a HUGE laundry list the Team is hard at work to deliver which we hope will make Filipino Voices a better site.
So why write this article when the issue is already being relegated to the archives?
why did you not write the more important issues of the week?
The Ca t, the air is poisonous out here, isn’t it?
Somethings needed to be said without pouring more gasoline unto the fire. Anyway see leytenian and momblogger’s replies, great responses. there are other responses here too that are great.
“A favorite saying: Don’t take yourself so seriously. Nobody else does.’ Nagkukuwentuhan lang tayo dito. ”
I think I that sounds very familiar.
true enough karl, true enough.
edit:
I think I that sounds very familiar.
i think that sounds very familiar.
Yep Karl.
Remember Master Yoda?
Credentials improved, since then had I. Duck Vader are allies, and myself now. Benign0 still part of Clueless Empire. Wink wink.
Chikachika yeah yeah – McLovin.
Too much TV is bad. Too much of anything is.
Just think’n about 98 Filipino seafarers still held captive by Somali pirates. Hope they too come home safely.
yep. exactly some of the issues we should be talking about, instead of the poisonous air that’s been happening. I hope that people get to vent all they want and raise issues they have here, so we can all move on to discuss what’s really important!
great responses will be those which agree with you. yes, the air is poisonous so your article is the “antidote”?
their responses and others here were what i hoped for, but didn’t really expect. glad they got what i meant. i had hope to give my opinion with as much civility i could muster. i will admit, i had hope to help defuse the matter. i know what goes on behind the scenes and like i’ve said and repeated: Nick’s on top of all your issues.
The length it has gone, one fact is magnified – blogsites compete with each other and so do bloggers.
Problem only is that, whatever can be fought can be fought right here at FV that made leytenian say – ‘we can kill each other’.
It just dawned on me that there seems to evolve a pattern where some persons now formed a clique to undermine FV by undermining Nick. It is at this point that I may have to subscribe to benigno’s concept of cultural dysfunctionality.
Well, it is us – the Filipino voices.
Wrong. can you check all benigno’s articles if you will see my name disparaging benigno? i think the disparaging is now done by other fellow contributors here in FV.
I debated with benigno for many years in pex and I should credit him for not using sexist words for female commenters.
But this guy turned me off so much so that I avoided writing in FV.
Leytenian is not onionskinned. Bless her.
I am… especially to people who use sexual innuendoes when addressing a woman.
And there are only two active women participating in this blog as regular commenters.
We do not have to be coddled (that is the right term) but the editor-in-chief should not have allowed comments of this type.
It is like calling gays, cocksuc…
I just wanted to point out to readers that Jeg is not Jag, just in case, like me, they need glasses. ;-)
J_AG did use ‘objectifying’ words when replying to leytenian’s comments but IIRC, leytenian held her own and did not, to her credit, exhibit any indication that she took offense.
I can only offer this to the readers at large: When a commenter says something that offends you, say so. Say something like ‘I find your reply to me offensive. Please refrain from doing so in future responses to me.’ Any decent fella will heed a civil request. We’ll see that the fella does next; whether he or she’s an a$$ or not.
…culent?
The Ca t,
Thank you for voicing this out. please see my responses to Gabby.
when dust settles and nick is able to see that RE is doing the Filipino voices favor to scrutinize who their writers really are, i am sure you will thank him.
how do these writers and commenters who treat the blog of RE as insignificant because it is written in gay lingo feel to be with a group where one is not only a lying about his traffic, his credentials and authoring a blog which displays nude photos of Filipinas just to attract traffic ? . What is the relevance of this blog which is not even about celebrities?
Which is more immoral?
How could someone who advocates about Filipina images issued a certificate of good moral character for this FV blogger ?
how could this FV blogger pontificate about new Philippines when it is contributing to the pollution of minds of children surfing in the internet? At least porno sites have caveats.
Are you people full of contradictions to defend your colleagues?
The Ca t,
i’m a pretty tolerant person. you’ve seen my replies to questions about our contributors. this site’s content speaks for itself. it will rise and fall on its own merit. If people don’t like it, like any decent person, they are free not to read it. just as i’m free not to read RE. while I appreciate the criticism of FV in general or things i write about, i’m not impressed with RE’s work or style.
speaking for myself, there are better things to occupy my time and my brain (i’m not that smart mind you). i prefer moving things forward. what’s different? what’s next? what’s on that next horizon? i hope people write something interesting, something positive, something that changes things. nobody is perfect, so i won’t judge anyone.
everyone,
as the guy who wrote this post, i’m no longer responding to this thread. i think i’ve been clear enough in responding to your questions and to my post in general. i can’t stop you from discussing amongst yourselves, i hope you agree to our comment policy.
Why are Pilifinos so highly-critical in english usage and spellings? In formal setting, writing resumes or formal communication english usage and spellings are critical.
Bashing someone over an innocent misspellings is below-the-belt. If Filipinos are really intelligent as what they claimed to be, they could have read the lines if Cocoy meant CUDDLE or CODDLE.
One of my pet-peeve is englischtzes bashings. Papered-Americans(Filipino-Americ;ans) are highly critical of englischtzes usage. They bashengese the hispanics, koreaneses, vietnameses and yet these englischtze bashers are not even mentioned in major business news daily and scientific journals.
GET REAL!
That is why Flippinos, the papered-american, don’t speakengese tangalog to their children because they wanted to p[ractice speakengese-englischtze to their children so when they come back here they flaunt their irish-accented-englischtzes …
BWESIT N’YO PILIFINOS!!!! GET REAL!!!!!
the cat,
the difference between you and elena can be:
you are making a point about CV. In your comments, you have provided rooms for arguments and debate. Allowing and listening to both sides which make your side of story fair. In the human side, you are being morally right :) sipsip.
RE makes CV as the main point. It can be interpreted as “a one way street” like a “be all it all” . There’s no room for arguments because she/he demanded from a community of which she/he has no control. She/he can be unfair.
What if Servant Mang Juan of Barrio Igorot will donate his sad life story in the future here at FV , would FV discriminate Mang juan from contributing because he is only a servant?
FV must provide rooms for diversity and accept anyone without prejudice who are willing to contribute. If it’s not a good article anyway, I will be the first one to attack :)
This for me is democracy. Filipino voices will then become the true voice of the filipino people.
do i make sense? :)
what happen to the other posts. I hate changes :)
the never-ending effort nick and filipino voices is doing to keep things moving forward.
sorry… i was surprised too. tech team is making changes to the comment system.
oic, i was sad because FV is part of my routine now :) i would definitely miss benigno if he will be fired :) LOL
pagbagsak ng last comment ko, ito na ang nagyari. parang magic, heheh.
please give notice naman!
Do I not think that Nick knows, in part or in whole, the profile of writers of FV especially the officially listed-FV bloggers?
If there is anyone of them with questionable profile, does this mean Nick or FV has to boot him or her out?
A good curriculum vitae is not synonymous with a good blog, is it?
As far as I am concerned, I thought that FV is an ‘open society’ as cocoy repeatedly emphasized. This means that let some work in discernment do its work.
Maybe, the vicious ad hominem attacks should be taken to heart by everyone – let us try to avoid it, if we can. Renato Pacifico, while at this orgy, makes a lot of sense.
@ leytenian,
benign0 is an original, a pioneer here at FV.
He stands on his own two feet.
We may not always agree or at times evedn hate each other’s guts… but I for one have only admiration for him and the other FV crewmen.
Respeto lang naman sa kani-kanyang kakayahan, o kakuangan.
Wike ka nga po, DESIDERATA.
Wala lang bastusan.
kalulangan, I meant.