Some bozo posted the following image on his Facebook profile apparently in protest against House Resolution 1109 which authorised convening of a “Constituent Assembly” to explore options around amendment of the Constitution.
(Click here to go to the actual Facebook photo album)
Blogger-cum-”reporter” Ding Gagelonia re-posted it on FilipinoVoices.com and described it as the work of a “politically astute graphic design expert and true Filipino” and takes a bit of poetic license in interpreting this “work of art” as a “representation of two parallel events – the evil 9-11 terror bombing that brought down the twin World Trade Center towers and House Resolution 1109″.
Classy indeed.
First of all, the 4,000+ people who died in the WTC did not VOTE for the pilots who flew those planes into those buildings. The only stupid thing happening around this “Con-Ass” brouhaha is the kind of voting being done by the supposed holders of “sovereign power” in this society we call “democratic”. Filipinos after all voted for these “representatives” in Congress thereby giving them authority to speak and act on their behalf.
Second, to call this “Con-Ass” thing “evil” alongside the tragedy of 9/11 illustrates the utter lack of perspective that perennially self-important Filipino “thought leaders” routinely exhibit.
Third, this resolution is only the first of many steps that need to be taken before any kind of actual changes are implemented. Consider too that whatever changes made are still to be enacted by the Filipino people in a plebiscite.
Fourth and last, some self-righteous folks here seem to be implying that only people who join them in hollow-headed over-reaction to this “resolution” can claim a right to be called “true Filipinos”.
The irony here is that the people who initiated this orgy of fear mongering and constantly warn us about how our “democracy” is threatened by all this, are the very ones who seek to stifle any discussion or exploration around whatever might actually be proposed in this exercise. This is exactly what the insightful blogger Rom advises us in her article Get a grip:
I’d like to hear what those are before pumping my fist and waving blood red banners in the streets, y’know? Hearing before you condemn – that’s the sort of thing they do in a democracy.
Indeed, not only is “democracy” about giving all voices a chance to be heard, it is also about due process. And this is only Square One of such a process.
Get a grip, people.
Designing dimwitted graphics like this and calling them works of “true Filipinos” simply highlight the renowned vacuousness of the Philippine national “debate”.
[This article was first published on Facebook on the GetRealPhilippines.COM page there.]
Popularity: 5% [?]
Congratulations.
Oh by the way, perhaps the ‘resident thinker’ while deriding Filipinos will care to:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/vacuity
shame on you, gagelonia. i see you haven’t learned from our exchange on a previous thread. irresponsibility breeds more irresponsibility.
Touche. You’ve really been away to long.
Oh, are you going to hit me with a paddle now, my esteemed ‘legal eagle’?
I “did not learn”? From You you mean? Kelan pa?
Shame on YOU.
so why don’t you give me that citation from the constitution that was the basis of your last post re 1109? i told you, your “experts” will not do. put up or shut up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-KcJ8fh-Sc
http://filipinovoices.com/on-the-road-to-2010-why-internet
http://filipinovoices.com/con-ass-where-would-this-nightmare-lead-us-to
Very classy, but to be fair though Filipinos aren’t the only citizens to exaggerate.
http://notoconass.com/
I would not post the graphic in my blog as I think it is OA.
However, I do see the Con-ass as a threat to democracy and I won’t take it sitting down. Together with friends, actions have already been undertaken to
1. Make extensive use of new media and new social media to get the information.
2. Organize forums nationwide to open a conversation about the con-ass.
One such forum was held last saturday, the 1st Facebook Eyeball (EB) Meet versus Con Ass where two congressmen were around to discuss with bloggers. Some congressmen declined.
http://www.newmedia.com.ph/facebook-eb-against-con-ass
Now, what else can you suggest?
A suggestion relates one of mlq3′s comments (when discussing parliamentary government) — the difficulty of discussing con-ass with high-school and college teachers and students because the audience do not have a sufficient understanding of the presidential form of government, governance and roles and responsibilities between citizenry, executive, judicial and legislative branches.
I was referring to Benigno to give me more suggestions that is contrary to the No To Con-ass campaign.
the suggestion is to define what specific amendments are being proposed,
What is the language of the letter of the law?
Surely, the Senate will take a different stance if the matter were one of amending
Section 2, Article 12, National Patrimony
Section 7, Article 12, National Patrimony
Compared to striking out:
why is it a threat to democracy, madam? the real threat to democracy is irresponsible incitement to violence by losers whose only way is their way. misleading the people that the resolution 1109 is “illegal and immoral” is not only wrong. it is one such irresponsibility.
the very least you can do is WAIT for the actual amendments to be proposed before you object to them. you are all getting ahead of yourselves. ultimately, the people will have a chance to have their say in a plebiscite. no need to hyperventilate in the meantime – it’s a waste of energy and resources. besides, you guys are are just letting yourselves be used as playthings by grandstanding politicians and the ever malcontent ideologues. in any event, i think almost everybody agrees that there is an urgent need to amend the constitution. isn’t that a fact?
I agree.
I did not like the way the HR 1109 was carried out into a vote much less trust them to convene the Con-ass. Now that alone is a danger signal to me. The railroading of HR 1109 is a clear indication that the public interest is secondary to personal political interests.
Why should I trust them now?
I like to plan, Bencard and not be taken aback by future manuevers that happened in June 2.
True, there is a need to amend the constitution and I don’t want it rushed.
I do agree that we should not be over-reacting but stay cool and calm, do our part in the No to Conass campaign.
Lastly, don’t drag me into politicians that you claim are using us as “playthings”. if you make such claims, substantiate it.
Thank you.
oh and please don’t call me Madam. Either use momblogger or Noemi, thank you.
suit yourself, momblogger. for crying out loud, how long have we been talking about amending the constitution? since ramos time? same old paranoia – fear of “destroying” democracy”; of extending/perpetuating the president in power; of eliminating the useless senate.
you need planning, you say? how? by rehashing the same fear-mongering and glass-half-empty mentality?
when is the “right time” for you? can the country afford to dilly-dally until another unpopular president gets so frustrated and forced to do another marcos act?
and oh, btw, i don’t mean to “drag” you as “plaything” of politicians. i just happened to think that people like you are a boon to politicians whose interests are threatened, like the senators who are in danger of extinction should a unicameral legislature be adopted.
Agree with benig0, and also offensive to Americans, though fruit not far removed from tree.
like momblogger, I would not dare post a graphic such as that. And I hate con-ass.
Yet, I cannot imagine in my mind why some Filipinos still want to be illuminated about Resolution 1109? I mean, come on! We’re supposed to be always online.
What is this craziness about “hearing before you condemn”? Hear what Benigno and Rom? You want to hear the true plan of Mrs. Arroyo from the culprit herself before you’ll act, is that it? Is’nt enough that you watched the proceedings and read all those articles written about Resolution 1109?
This is the true vacuousness—it says much about how you view things. You did’nt do your assignment. Before you even write, you need to think what you’re writing about.
Hear before condemnation? If you do that and you urge people to do that, that is the mistake our forebears did in 1972 and that’ll be a mistake if we procrastinate and do nothing and wait for the guava fruit to fall.
You Benigno, you criticize your fellow Pinoys for being “monkeys” and revelling in “ocho-ocho” revolutions yet YOU, yourself, are like Juan Tamad. Imagine, in a critical time like this, you actually encourage your fellow Pinoys to “calm down” and “hear first before you condemn”? This is pure intellectual philistinism that should be condemned whenever present.
Don’t be dense Pat. I want to hear what amendments will be proposed. And then I want to vote on those amendments when the plebiscite is called. That’s how this Constitution works.
In a time when all ideas are welcome and all methods are being analyzed for their relevance, here comes the cocohead, sassying like a primadonna, and telling us that we’re all wrong. That revolts are “ocho-ocho” and Filipinos are “monkeys”. Some guys thought this was cute. Others say it’s a revelation. But, it had happened before, in the time of Rizal. So, what is new about the ideas of this cocohead? Nothing, but a simple, low level clank in a shallow coco husk.
If all ideas are welcome and all methods are being analyzed for relevance, why are you so afraid of 1109? Why do you want it shot down before the SC even gets a chance to rule on it? Oh, wait. That’s right. You’re one of the “brilliant ones” who are always on-line and read all the articles. Riiiiight.
I suppose that qualifies you as a constitutionalist. You pluck the fruit from the tree of your betters and pass it off as your own. Awesome. That is soo brilliant.
As for what you watched on teevee … that’s called politics, Pat. And as Renato Constantino said, the halo of rigtheousness only changes heads.
Rom is a political virgin, also a corruption virgin. Never been in trouble with the law or politicians? How about druglords? Never been dragged by the police from your home without a warrant? Never had goons follow you around and give you the eye?
Bri, I worked on the political campaign in 2007; I work for a pol now. I’ve turned down a druglord’s offer of a one-night-stand, and I’ve had a KFR threat. I wonder how close you’ve come to these things that you feel you can patronize me?
Read between the lines, Pat. Read between the lines. (You could still take this literally by reading between the lines of this exact article; well, that’s not what I meant.)
I mean: Look at WHO AMONG OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS are the staunchest silencers of HR1109. Look at why these individuals, with diverse ambitions and self-interests, have now apparently banded together. These elected officials have people like yourself doing their bidding,not to save democracy, but to make people think they are saving democracy while becoming progressively enraged at the current administration.
Sure I can’t imagine anything good to come out of this thing they call Con-Ass, but heck that could simply be a lack of profound understanding on my part because we haven’t even had a chance to engage it. Democracy isn’t just our right to go out in the streets and protest. Democracy is OUR PARTICIPATION in the very processes of government. Maybe Bencard could articulate that better, but I think that was fairly clear enough to you. Sure, momblogger doesn’t trust the lot of them who floated HR1109 so quickly and swiftly, but then, neither do I. Rather than I join your premature protestations now and be among the pawns of anti-Con-Ass politicians of equally questionable motives as the pro-Con-Ass politicians, I’d prefer to NOT be part of silencing/hindering/stifling the dialogue that empowers you and I to actually shape what comes out of HR1109 in an actual plebiscite.
Now, if we as a people get cheated AFTER DUE PROCESS, then by all means I’ll join you in your lynch mobs. Fair enough? That’s what it means to be fighting the good fight – well, fighting the right fight, that’s for sure.
So don’t get easily swayed by some bloggers who worship the footsteps of the likes of Mar Roxas. Even if they keep saying they don’t have to keep blogging they still do. We’re better off listening to Bencard, benign0 and rom. They allow us to be better critical thinkers, not sheep. And for chrissakes stop ignoring the insights thrown your way.
So much foot stomping here and not one word that even attempts to challenge the four points I bring up in my brilliant article.
If you foot stompers are so convinced of the righteousness of your view, then respond to those four points point-by-point.
That is the ONLY test of how “wrong” I am and the ONLY real way to invalidate what I wrote.
Up to the challenge boys? :D
I thought I made it clear that I don’t like the graphic but let me indulge
Point 1- Filipinos after all voted for these “representatives” in Congress thereby giving them authority to speak and act on their behalf.
Nope I don’t agree with this because for a critical issue like constitutional amendment, they should have consulted with their leaders, their constituents. Be in tune with the needs?
Second, to call this “Con-Ass” thing “evil” alongside the tragedy of 9/11 illustrates the utter lack of perspective that perennially self-important Filipino “thought leaders” routinely exhibit.
I don’t exactly call Con-ass evil in the same vein as 911… but it has the potential to cause evil because it threatens the very existence of this country’s democracy , the lives of our children, their future. I don’t want GMA to run another term because of a technicality from an amended consitution. Never again, long term extensions of the presidency.
Third, this resolution is only the first of many steps that need to be taken before any kind of actual changes are implemented. Consider too that whatever changes made are still to be enacted by the Filipino people in a plebiscite.
Why wait for the coconut to fall on my head before damage is done, e.g. term extension? So I will wait for the Con-ass to convene and be conned once again? I am all for charter change but not before the 2010 elections.
Fourth and last, some self-righteous folks here seem to be implying that only people who join them in hollow-headed over-reaction to this “resolution” can claim a right to be called “true Filipinos”.
I won’t go for hollow-headed over-reactions to this campaign. To put a label “true” is being redundant. I am a Filipino.
Now who is being self-righteous here?
You wasted your time momblogger. BenignO only listens to himself.
it’s okay Supremo if Benigno listens only to himself. I was making a stand and not out to persuade him.
Mom,
1. Um, these Congressmen actually ran the last two elections on a platform which specifically stated that they wanted to promote parliamentary federalism. And they won!
Many of them also had multiple meetings with their constituents and various NGO and religious groups when they were trying the People’s Initiative approach.
And what measuring stick is now being used to evaluate a region’s, or barangay’s, wishes or views? Just who is speaking out on their behalf? Leah Navaro???
2. The leap from a House Resolution to a GMA-forever scenario is huge, being virtually impossible at best. (See below in this thread what it would take.) A brief understanding of the actual mechanisms would allay any thoughtful person’s (irrational) fears.
3. The likelyhood of any changes before 2010 are miniscule. The odds of passing an amendment such as no-el or term extensions are even less. In fact, the only way ANYthing will pass is if most everyone feels it should. Again, look at the path an amendment must make.
4. It will be great if you maintain your objectivity and sobriety while there are certain sectors trying to whip up a frenzy (gee, I wonder why?). I wish you the best and will respect your thorough;y contemplated point of view. As long as violence is avoided and the laws are followed, right?
I highly doubt they had multiple meetings. At least not in my district. My congressman voted for the approval for HR 1109. I don’t recall a single meeting and to think my relatives are very active in politics in my city
Well I am aware of the mechanisms of constitutional amendments having lived through 1973, 1986 and 1987 (My husband is a lawyer so he pointed it out to me)
Living through the horrors of martial law and a dictatorship keep me on my toes. Call it paranoia or as you call irrational fear, but let’s just say I am vigilant. HR 1109 is devious and how it was carried out for approval is questionable. That alone raises my suspicions, my gut feel that it is not right.
mom,
Your Congressman’s platform called for ChaCha and he won.
Most districts had these meetings in 2006 during the P.I movement, not recently. Anyway, resolutions pretty much are never worthy of debate. Especially when its goal is to simply create a “justiciable issue”.
If you know the mechanisms, just how do you think a bad result will occur? Can you describe what the step-by-step progression would occur that would enable some result like dictatorship? Do you envision the general public voting for term extensions and the like?
I applaud your vigilance. People in political power need to be kept in check. That’s reality.
But I disagree that 1109, toothless as it is, needs to be feared or seen as “devious”. If anything, it was predictable, legitimate and meaningless. What will matter is how the SC will eventually appreciate all of this.
By the way, that’s a nice avatar you have.
sorry pips, i am for chacha. i may have to agree with benigno on the picture that it was not a ” work of art”. Second, very few pinoys have an ass like that. The ass is too white. :)
its time to open our country for more incoming investments to spur economic growth and employ juan de la cruz. sometimes the middle class who are currenty employed can be a drag. The fear of arroyo’s extension is not Freedom but the lack of it. Why Fear when we already know her? Business is business my friends. The more competition there is , the better the economy. And let the local government units manage juan de la cruz. let the visayans and mindanaoan manage their poor. Let Juan de la cruz participate….
Some Filipinos are also for Cha Cha, and their battle cry is ” Cha Cha, “yes”, but not now.”
I am for Charter Change but not before the 2010 elections. I don’t agree with term extensions. Haven’t we learned from the past? (if you were old enough to live through Martial law)
Power corrupts.
Did you know that we the taxpayers are still paying for the foreign debts of Marcos until 2025, 39 years after he was ousted from office?
We live here and are suffering from the consequences of the past.
Never again should we allow term extensions to happen, ever. That’s why the 1987 constitution made sure of that.
If Pinoys will have the same political/civic culture, norms, mores that is not conducive to democracy – term extensions or not – it will be the same screwed up trash heap.
Pinoys can have can have any form of democratic government they want.
But if you have the same political/civic culture, norms, mores that is not conducive to democracy , you will live and suffer from the consequences of the past all the way to the present, and INTO THE FUTURE.
If you have a good president, settling for one term is a disservice.
Thus, far, its better to have one term because Pinoys use the same criteria for selecting leaders – which kinda gives you an indication where its headed – same old sh*t.
This is truly insane…or inane.
The House will convene a ConAss in July and will be immediately taken to the SC. All the presentations, arguments, etc will then occur. How many months does that take?
If…IF…the SC agrees that Congress shall vote all together in the ConAss, then proposals for amendments will be put forth and debated. How long will that take?
Now, regardless of the nature of any amendments, whatever ConAss would produce would next need to approved by plebescite. If I’m right, there are prescriptions about how much X knowledge must be disseminated over how much Y length of time. Recall that the rather widespread efforts of the People’s Initiative still didn’t satisfy the courts. It’s not like ConAss can put out a white paper on one day and then have the plebescite the following week.
The plebescite must also requires an enactment law, if I’m not mistaken. And that requires passing a law the old fashioned way — through the Senate.
In addition, funding is required. And that brings the Senate back into the picture. The Senators are not naturally receptive to any concepts of loss of position/power. I don’t expect them to cooperate. Does anyone?
Lastly, a plebescite will actually be presented to the people. Will they vote for clearly evil and anomolous acts???
And how long will all of this take?
And isn’t it that candidates must declare before/in November? They’ll all be busy shaking hands and spending money by then.
Sheesh. This must all mean that martial law and dictatorship are just around the corner. Just like we’ve heard it is for two handful of years…..
There has to be a sign in the NAIA that says ABANDONE HOPE ALL YE WHO ENTER THE PHILIPPINES :lol:
Erratum crap:
ABANDON*
Dang I miss the IntenseDebate plugin.
I swear … even as a joke, this is retarded. If the Philippines is so hellish, leave. Or if you’re not here, stay the hell away. Izzat so hard?
Believe you me.. stayed the hell away it is.
My first impression after arriving at NAIA last December 4, 2009 was shaped after being made to sit outside the curbs at 1AM, together with other Pinoys huddled and waiting to get home to our loved ones and family. There we were sitting outside together with other passengers, and we cannot get into our terminals until 2AM or 3AM – and there we had to sit in the curb.
At the very least maano na man lang magkaroon ng lounge na merong A/C – 14 hours sitting in a frakking cabin chair so you can get to enjoy the champorado, the lechon, the bibingka, the pancit malabon, the san miguel beer – maano man lang maipahinga ko yung tumatandang likod ko.
Pag-uwi naman, the security was unbelievable – easily 6 points where I had to present my boarding pass
* at the terminal entry
* at the airline counter
* security counter
* immigration counter
* pre-departure area
* carrier gate
Naturally, nakahilera na naman. And the cue is moving so slow. And one thinks, ahhhh can’t wait to be out of here.
bongv, are you sure it was December 4, 2009? i’m still planning my trip around that time. is it me or is it my calendar?
bencard – 2008 i meant :lol:
it’s nice to have good memories every visit, but it has to be punctuated by napakaretarded na procedures. pagkamahalmahal pa talaga ng siopao sa NAIA – PhP 80!!! ok lang sana kung yung serbisyo at convenience dollar din, e piso pa rin naman. I arrive 1 am from Detroit via Narita. Then I had to take a shuttle bus to the PAL terminal in NAIA. The security guards wouldn’t allow anyone into the terminal because the counters were not open yet. I mean who gives a darn about the frakking counters, I just wanna sit down, and have some cool air – as long as I’m comfortable, I’ll even consider giving my sit away. But to hear the reason that, we can’t get in into the terminals because the counters were closed – all the international passengers with domestic destinations were huddled along the benches, luggages scattered in the curb, some were seated on the floor, i was sitted on the floor, it was so frakking humid … AHHHH.. IMPYERNO.. there goes my holiday spirit.
makes one miss ATL or La Guardia or JFK or SFO or LAX airports – you never have to leave the terminal, and you can shop 24/7.
after three weeks, the euphoria dies down and the novelty of the fiesta atmosphere wanes.
*seat :lol:
6 points? i don’t think i had the same experience
* at the terminal entry — yes, security precaution to keep non-travelers out of the airport. in others countries, this isn’t required.
* at the airline counter — yes, have to do this. all airports do this.
* security counter — never had to do that!
* immigration counter — is this for immigrants? for flights departing manila, i don’t think this is part of the it, unless you mean travel tax?
* pre-departure area — yes
* carrier gate – i don’t think so. at this point, all they want to see is the boarding pass.
so if you’ve stayed away, go easy on feeding the victim mentality over here with asinine cracks like that. not every one cuts and runs like you did.
GabbyD:
There’s another security checkpoint at the NWA gate – paid for by NWA!
On top of the security checkpoint at the terminal entry, plus another one at the pre-departure hall.
Speaking of boarding passes, I recall presenting my boarding pass at the counter in Jax, and to the stewardess – that’s it. So having to present my boarding pass 6 times in NAIA is definitely GLARING.
It depends on how the people define “evil”. It’s a bizarro world – and “evil” can mean “good:” and “good” can mean “evil” :lol:
Some quarters believe trapo politics is good for their personal survival – therefore it is an evil that does him “good” :lol:
smoke:
been there done that. slugged it out against Macoy’s forces in the streets – and more.
And I come home to more mini-Macoys. – you can all “fight” the choices selected by the CDE groups – till the cows come home :lol:
Roll call time :lol:
AGREE Based on the principle of representative democracy, there is a presumption that the representatives’ constituencies are in favor of charter change. How the principle of representation is applied is another story.
AGREE.. I wouldn’t equate 9/11 with HR 1109, the metaphor is misleading.
AGREE. There is a due process. Let the processes play out.
AGREE. There are Filipinos who agree to the overreaction, and there are Filipinos who don’t agree with the over-reaction. All are still “true Filipinos” – in the sense that they are holders of Philippine passports.
let’s do it now and get it over with. are we practicing manana habit again?
Questions:
1. do you think chacha will affect your household economics ? in what way if implemented and how?
2. Would it help juan de lacruz on the concept of ” opening up” ? and LGU empowerment? why and explain?
3. Does it directly affect your business profits and revenue ? in what way if implemented and how?
4. why fear of a small woman in office?
I don’t think there will be a fruitful discussion unless the proposed changes are identified first.
bong,
so we wait for the actual changes before we discuss or we can discuss as we go along with these proposasl?
bong, you may have to go read’s old manolo’s blog and here about charter change. i think your lens are blurry :)
bong,
then study and google search proposal…
1. decentralization – monopoly of power
2. parliamentary
3. entrepreneurship’s- small and medium business ( both are the backbone of economic growth not big business own by elites)
4. participation of Juan de la cruz thru LGU empowerment and support.
5. economic liberation- opening to global investors ( cleaning up borders and corruption to encourage investors) “opening up” in finance… cash flow in
then let’s have a healthy discussion. it may help clean our lenses… :)
leytenian:
the items you mentioned are GENERALIZED and AMBIGUOUS.
What I want to see is the exact language.
1. What sections will be amended?
Cite the specific Section and Article of the Constitution will be changed.
Cite the wordings of the proposed changes.
For example, when the US Constitution was amended, specifically, the introduction of the Bill of Rights, the Resolution read as:
If you don’t have anything like this, let’s not waste each others time.
Note also the language:
RESOLVED
by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of
America, in Congress assembled, two thirds of both Houses concurring,
that the following Articles be proposed to the Legislatures of the
several States, as amendments to the Constitution of the United States,
all, or any of which Articles, when ratified by three-fourths of the
said Legislatures, to be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of
the said Constitution; viz.
I’m with BongV on this — let’s wait and see what is put on the table…that has any lasting power. I can foresee a rather contentious environment. And a drawn out one.
Leytenian — I’ll admit that some things you once posted at mlq3′s site made me take pause (re federalism, decentralization, etc). That’s why I adhere to the concept of having an open mind re all the proposals…these issues are complex.
But I’m certainly for opening the debate, but there are only a few areas where I feel sure I know what I’d like to see…while there are many areas in which I’m straddling positions.
All I know is that the present sytem and Constitution are egregiously infirm and need vast improvements. Too much centralization. Minority Presidencies are too inherently weak. Senators are incredibly expensive personalities without constituencies…or accountabilities. Economic restrictions on foreigners are probably damaging or at least limiting. There’s plenty to look at.
Just remember: The Senators will always be natural enemies of such talks — parliamentary federalism doesn’t typically play to their strengths. So just getting any proposals on the table will be difficult enough, regardless of HR1109.
Spot the flaws:
1. “House Resolution 1109 which ‘authorized’ the convening of a Constituent Assembly ‘to explore options around amendment’ of the Constitution.
Offhand, the word ‘authorized’ is misplaced since HR 1109 is ‘a resolution “calling” upon the Members …”
The words authorized and calling do not mean the same. Obviously, you didn’t read the test of HR 1109 itself. Nanghula ka, mali pa.
As to the other one – ‘to explore options around amendment’ – what kind of English is that, let alone the thought? To be straightjacketed about it, it should simply be worded as ‘proposing amendments to, or revision of the Constitution’.
That is the whole problem with literary blogs written in long-winding sentences. Hindi niya matumbok ang prescribed sense consistent with HR 1109.
Touching HR 1109 is better left to someone here but then again, I don’t know.
Sorry but I can’t go on.
Hoy, Media Dog ni Bayani Fernando at Gloria Arroyo. Are you not
ashame of yourself?
Anyway your Patrons had paid you well from their loots. So, you are
sweating it out to defend them. You are an Ass.
Now guys, Benigno is being blind and don’t want to do read on what the good congressmen are doing or have been doing — he wants to be consistent on his thesis that Pinoys are vacuous because we are contesting the fact that the representative of the current House have stopped representing the people a long time ago. This is the premise of the whole edifice on why 1109 needs to be condemned and opposed. But of course that premise is something he just won’t accept because we “bozos” elected them.
Finally.
but madona, medyo OA naman yung picture. the comparison does no one any good.
its like calling your political opponents HITLER all the time. its counterproductive.
Ngaks, what comparison? These “political” opponents are no Hitler. Hitler was an Aryan supremacist — the worst ideologue who could actually tap the insecurity and sentiments of his people. These congressmen by their actions stand for virtually nothing — NOTHING. Except by the power of pork more power. Imagine that. We are being suckered by people who stand for nothing.
what comparison? the picture compares HR1109 to 9/11.
if the congressmen aren’t hitler, they aren’t al quaida either.
A, yun ba GabbyD. I misunderstood you. I actually agree with Benigno that comparing 9/11 to the HB 1109 ass pic is LOLs (my showbiz answer: no comment). One thing with Benigs, he’s got an appreciation for the symmetry and wholistic structure of the arts.
I thought you were making a comment on my previous comment, which focused on the pics but on his opinion why condemning HB 1109 is moronic or exhibits shallow thinking.
Correction:
Should read: “I thought you were making a comment on my previous comment, which focused NOT ON the pics but on his opinion why condemning HB 1109 is moronic or exhibits shallow thinking.
i agree, gabbyd, which brings me to a conclusion that the “bozo” can make a poster but he can not think, i.e., moronic analogy.
No, madonna, this has nothing to do with benign0.
Pray tell, if the ones who win by votes are not the representatives, who are the real representatives? How will anyone know/discern? Is there a secret knock? Handshake? Whistle?
So 1109 needs to be “condemned and opposed” because it essentially asks/forces the SC to clarify an ambiguity in the Constitution? You realize that such a move is pretty basic, yes?
Are you worried that the general public may one day vote differently then you want??? Are you scared of a plebescite?
“Pray tell, if the ones who win by votes are not the representatives, who are the real representatives? How will anyone know/discern? Is there a secret knock? Handshake? Whistle?”
Oh gosh. You actually don’t know? What a pity. What rock have you been hiding? Do we have to repeat it? No even to discuss at length how this Congress has consistently failed to make the Executive accountable (impeachment, etc) — on this charter change issue alone — the people have resoundingly said they are against charter change at his time, and under this Congress via the surveys. Did you know how HB 1109 was passed — stifling debates and passed in the dead of the night? So tell me — do you know your democracy 101?
And fyi, I am in favor of charter change and a parliamentary form of government but not with these thieves and generates deciding the changes.
“So 1109 needs to be “condemned and opposed” because it essentially asks/forces the SC to clarify an ambiguity in the Constitution? You realize that such a move is pretty basic, yes?”
Read again the premise I wrote above.
“Are you worried that the general public may one day vote differently then you want??? Are you scared of a plebescite?”
LOL. I am not afraid of people voting for what they want. What I am scared of is a Marcos redux — when he made everything right by legalism.
And uhhhh, lemme ask my own thing? Are you not afraid of the Queen Gloria? We aint living in a republic anymore. Ehem, well, Serge Remonde answered that for you, so you’ll have an easy time answering.
Madoona,
Huh. You think I’m the one who has been missing the news?
You say the Reps aren’t Reps because they protected GMA in the impeachment moves. Perhaps you forgot that these Reps were then voted back in to power by the people in 2007.
The people are not against ChaCha as you claim. In fact, the surveys show the opposite. Perhaps you don’t know what the wording was of SWS survey this year? “Are you for or against a Charter change THAT WILL ALLOW GMA TO STILL BE THE CHIEF OFFICIAL AFTER 2010?”
Those who refer to this survey as reflecting the people’s anti-ChaCha position are either uninformed or lying.
A resolution taking 5 hours to pass…is that a record? The motion was put forth in early April. The majority finally ended the filibuster and called for a vote. Do YOU know democracy 101???
No, I’m not scared of martial law. You are one of the people who have claimed it was imminent (or even active) since 2005.
Hyperventalating hyperbole.
Well, so much reality check. Paki-basa ulit ang results ng mga surveys. Lols — wow, at binago mo pa ang definition ng filibustering! Do you know what a filibuster does?
What’s so hard to understand that a House majority or ruling party desecrated the spirit of bicameralism and coyly saying that the SC needs to decide on the issue because on paper the Constitution is vague about it. Again, read the Constitution — and not the way fools do — tripping over “words” to read their own version of the truth.
Thanks for admitting it dear. You are not afraid of martial law. Good luck.
“Dear”, eh? OK, sweetness.
1. I’m not scared of martial law because I don’t believe there is a chance of it. I don’t think one is being — or will be — contemplated. I don’t even think there can be any significant protests that would necessitate it (or offer an excuse for it).
I think the only reason the words “martial law” is being thrown around is because malcontents are trying to create (irrational) fear. It’s a political gimmick.
2. About 42% of the population has been steadily against ChaCha, with 22% of them saying that the reason they are against it is because they don’t want term extensions and/or for GMA to remain in power.
Since a plebescite offers the people the right/ability to reject any specific clauses — like GMA’s extension — I don’t see that one concern as a reason to once again do nothing.
What’s the matter — don’t you trust the electorate?
3. Filibuster — “An attempt is made to extend indefinitely a debate upon a proposal in order to delay the progress or completely prevent a vote on the proposal taking place.”
The oppositors were just repeating themselves and often regurgitating old, unrelated, unsubstantiated accusations. They were allowed to do this for 5 hours, thus dragging the whole thing til midnight.
That belies your claim that 1109 was passed by “stifling debates and passed in the dead of the night”. I bet it was the longest it’s ever taken to pass a resolution.
4. Your vaunted “spirit of bicameralism” is a big part of the problem. The money-guzzling Senate’s existence has been a big part of the governance problem. The Senate’s resistance to positive reform is a big part of the problem. The personality-orientated Senate’s lack of accountability to a specific constituency is a big part of the problem.
5. The Constitution’s words should not be “tripped over”??? The whole idea about laws is their wording. The Constitution says “by 3/4 of Congress”…not “by 3/4 House and 3/4 Senate”, as is specified elsewhere.
This is indeed a battle of words…which specify how laws work. How do you think laws in every country work?
What if that’s what the CDE voters want – someone who can perform a Marcos redux. The voters have done it time and again – is that about to “change”?
Just as I suspected — when faced with undeniable facts that clearly refute your position, you keep trying to wiggle out by challenging me rather than demonstrating the validity of your argument.
By the way, I’ve been here for 17 years now; I think I know how things work politically and otherwise. Meanwhile, I experienced living under other political systems in Brazil, Korea, Taiwan as much as in the US and Greece.
Your attempts to belittle me, my experiences and my ability to discern are as futile as your attempts to justify your baseless positions. All “gut feelings” and emotions; no facts nor logic. And THAT is a microcosm of the problems which surround us — people too often think with something else than their brain.
It wouldn’t bother me so much except it is negatively affecting this country’s ability to move forward and and prosper….and that hurts EVERYBODY here.
Yeah, you are right. Over and out.
1. Ok, you’re not afraid. That’s ok I guess.
2. Someone has been making abracadabra of Cha-cha survey results. Refer to these:
http://www.bworldonline.com/BW041409/content.php?id=005
Oh, so tell why are you in a hurry to make cha-cha now when it can be done 11 months from now, after a fresh change of bad air due to this regime?
No, I trust the electorate, so much so that I joined groups to safeguard the ballot since I was old enough to vote.
3. Thanks for looking up filibustering. I hope you know the difference between filibustering and parliamentary behavior and parliamentary debate.
4. Now talk about making a reply out of context. I was talking about the spirit of bicameralism as enshrined in the 1987 Constitution. Why should the Supreme Court make patol of a bogus resolution, accomplished by unruly uncivilized people whose mantra is “kung pwede lumusot, bakit hindi”?
5. HAHAHA. Oh Christ. Words and laws, you mean? Nakupo kiddo, if your basis for laws are words — by golly you are a goner in this sad republic. Good luck with looking at reality. Don’t give it up.
1. Surveys — Again, that is referring to an SWS survey which asked people if they support ChaCha IF IT FOR THE PURPOSE OF EXTENDING GMA’S TERM IN OFFICE. Gee, I too would agree that I don’t want GMA to extend her term.
But that survey was NOT about the population’s support/non-support of ChaCha in general. It’s typical of SWS do do this abracadabra. The nature and timing of Pulse Asia and SWS surveys have rendered those organizations as useless.
They are playing with words.
I guess the above info re surveys have adequately belied your comment — “the people have resoundingly said they are against charter change at his time, and under this Congress via the surveys.” Blatantly false.
(By the way, since you seem to care about these surveys so much, what is your opinion of all the preelection polls and exit polls in 2003/4 which showed that GMA was to win by about 1m votes?)
2. A filibuster is a filibuster. You implied I didn’t know what it meant and that the term was misused. Actually, it was quite a propos. That’s what the oppositors were doing. That’s why it took 5 long hours to pass a RESOLUTION. It was done live on tv.
This all debunks your statement — “how HB 1109 was passed — stifling debates and passed in the dead of the night.” Blatantly false.
3. The laws of modern societies are written in words. Legislators use specific words when creating laws. Lawyers and judges debate these words. Words matter, not your individual interpretation of of words. Bill Clinton tried your approach with his infamous “it all depends what you mean by the word ‘is’”.
You are trying to twist reality to fit your predisposed prejudices. And then you are selling it as if it all is hard fact. The agitators have been doing this for 4 years now.
It is damaging to the country, retards investments and job growth and thus hurts the drive to reduce poverty.
Kiddo, your view of reality is screwed. Keep on adjusting your lenses and keep up the inquiry, starting with the premises for your opinions. Don’t let propagandists or what you read in the papers dictate what you should believe. You sound young to me and I am quite sad if that is indeed the case.
To quote you : HAHAHA
I am 50 years old, have lived extensively in 8 countries on 4 continents. I have lived under martial law in 2 countries outside of Pinas. I was well-educated in the US. I got my first full time job at age 14 and worked my way through college.
So pls don’t talk down to me as if I’m young and naive.
And I certainly am not going to form my opinions by reading the national newspapers or by listening to the propaganda emanating from Malacanang, Congress or politicized NGO’s…never mind from “personalities” on tv or in blogs. But I will listen to all of them.
You say my view of reality is screwed. You say this after you made claims which I showed were patently false. To wit:
The polls, in fact, do NOT show that the people are resoundingly vs ChaCha.
Debate was NOT stifled, in fact, and the oppositors were given about 5 HOURS to register their thoughts about a RESOLUTION. All of this was LIVE on ANC.
The Congressmen who voted were all ELECTED and represent the people. The people voted for these reps AFTER they took whatever position in the impeachment attempts. The people ELECTED the reps who have openly, repeatedly called for ChaCha BEFORE being elected.
Bicameralism was NOT desecrated as there’s no need to invite the Senate to join in a House Resolution.There is certainly a big difference of opinion between the the House and Senate (a common occurence in democracies), especially in the understanding of a clause in the Constitution. The universally prescribed methodology is to let the SC interpret/clarify the WORDS of the law.
The people will be able to accept or reject any changes to the Constitution via a PLEBESCITE, regardless of what the House does in a simple RESOLUTION.
These are facts. Real facts. Not opinions, not insights. You say they are not. But you offer no proof which contradict or disprove these facts.
So you see, I don’t buy anyone’s BS, I look for the real facts. I make a reality check to keep me from being swayed by emotions and group think.
Now admit it: You don’t like GMA, you think the Garci tapes prove she wasn’t elected, you dislike Congress because they didn’t impeach her, you have supported all the accusations against her, you’ve supported every rally, you would like for her to be removed from office even with a year left, etc, etc. Am I correct?
If so, with these premises embedded in your mind, you then told us all how HR1109 is so bad. Right? Forgive me if I stick to the facts and not somebody’s opinion about “truth”.
AHAHAHAHAHA. Now you made me laugh. Again. Sorry for the presumption. But you did sound young to me. And yet I would still say that my gut feel may have missed your actual age but I was right about your actual experience of politics in the Philippines.
Hmmmm, let me again reiterate: your view of reality is still screwed. Why? Apparently your whole basis of how democracy works is based on how democracy work in the US or in the Western states. It’s different here on the ground called Filipinas where its dynamics and essence are yet to be won or reconciled in actual practice. So, therefore, you my dear, even if you are much, much older than me, you are still “young”.
Of course I don’t like GMA. Sus, obvious ba? E of course ikaw, labs mo sya. Hence, all this talk.
Over and out.
Oops, I posted this in the wrong place.
———————-
Just as I suspected — when faced with undeniable facts that clearly refute your position, you keep trying to wiggle out by challenging me rather than demonstrating the validity of your argument.
By the way, I’ve been here for 17 years now; I think I know how things work politically and otherwise. Meanwhile, I experienced living under other political systems in Brazil, Korea, Taiwan as much as in the US and Greece.
Your attempts to belittle me, my experiences and my ability to discern are as futile as your attempts to justify your baseless positions. All “gut feelings” and emotions; no facts nor logic. And THAT is a microcosm of the problems which surround us — people too often think with something else than their brain.
It wouldn’t bother me so much except it is negatively affecting this country’s ability to move forward and and prosper….and that hurts EVERYBODY here.
Yeah, you are right. Over and out.
I read in past newspaper articles during the Presidential Election between Diosdado Macapagal and Marcos. The late Marcos used the phrase: ALIS DIYAN to defeat the father of the would be Dictator Gloria Arroyo. Her father, Diosdado Macapagal was as corrupt as she is.
We will use the phrase: ALIS DIYAN, to smoke her out from Malacanang
Palace. She will be defeated as her father was. History will repeat
itself.
wrong history. what are you, a revisionist or something? and the holocaust never happened in germany, right? macapagal has never been personally accused of corruption in all his career in politics.
You are correct here, Atty. Ban.
Macapagal, the father, was grossly different from Macapagal-Arroyo, the daughter.
likewise WRONG, ding. pgma has never been PERSONALLY accused, indicted and/or convicted of corruption, i.e, personally stealing money like erap.
@ben
she has been accused, at least.
oh yeah, gabbyd, i forgot. by cayetano and he became a senator after presenting a boxful or two of garbage for evidence, right?
Reactions:
http://www.facebook.com/posted.php?id=1067720649&share_id=98689501453&post_id=98689501453&comments=
Here’s where the FB campaign is:
http://apps.facebook.com/causes/293075?m=b5819bfe
What’s this? Some kind of on-line PeoplePower? :D
Good luck!
I only wish that we would not become, as British author Samuel Johnson described them, like “the Irish who(sic) are a fair people. They never speak well of one another.”
With all due respect to the Irish of course.
good an ‘ya mate! But I have seen worse graphic political commentaries in Australia, especially after Johnnie Howard went with old’ Dubya Bush on Iraq..
Good morning Atty. Banjamin Cardinez.
How’s the weather this evening over in Connecticut?
Have realty values started to recover? Business good?
Me shut up? You wish.
Good day to ya. :)
What was it you said I should have “learned”?
Three (or is it four?)impeachment cases have been suppressed. Have you seen the supporting affidavits?
I guess not.
Unless they hire you right? Doing pro bono work?
ah so Bencard is based in Connecticut? That gives me a better perspective of his comments. Moving on.
what’s that supposed to mean, momblogger?
are you being evasive, ding gagelonia? where’s the citation? do i have to wait till hell freezes over? don’t be bashful. if you don’t have it, be candid and tell p. mangubat about it so he would refrain from inflaming the masses with his misinformation.
I’m actually flattered by what Ms. Ellen Tordesillas (fact-based Pinoy “reporter” extraoridinaire commented on the image on Facebook:
A sample of the kind of hearsay-based speculation-driven approach of our “esteemed” professional journalists.
Kinda flattering actually that GetRealPhilippines.com comes across as a “Malacanang-sponsored blog” [sic]. :D
Para na ring sinabi na “The Pope is an atheist” :lol:
dang.. .the katangahan is unbelievable
Evasive? Nah.
Go to the Congressional rules or order around your cpffee gopher, dear Atty. Ben. Kaya mo yan.
“Inflaming the masses”?
Dati na silang inflamed.
that would be the “masses” of the BC group.
the CDE group is a lot more stoic – “rally rally, ilang beses na nag-rally, ilang beses na nag-EDSA, tuyo at dilis pa rin ang ulam ng masa, makapaghanapbuhay nga muna. sana naman kumita ang benta ko sa mga rallyista, at least may pakinabang ang mga damontres”.
ding congressional rules, as the name implies, are rules promulgated by each house, and may be changed or modified by them at the beginning of each term. they are not necessarily constitutional mandates. i was asking you for a constitutional basis for your post that a house resolution is subject to senate approval.
Kulit eh..
Let’s see it as it unfolds. July 27 as the House pushes the Con-Ass envelop the justiciable case will be there…. I will be patient to see how SCORP will rule eventually I hope soonest…
I will bow to the ri;ong.
Fair?
Is there a way to screen benign0′s articles from Google Reader? I feel like wasting precious seconds when I scroll through his traditional garbage.
Why can’t I post a reply to RealityCheck?
Erratum crap
“ruling” I meant.
I still love the Filipino’s creativity and flare amidst political crises – simple and down-to-earth! …and yes, I hate HR 1109. Doing so embarrasses our constitutional stability in the eyes of the entire world. Makes us really look more corrupt. Ugh!
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