Comments on: GRP Wages War

By: AdB

AdB — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 01:48:28 +0000

Must say I agree with DJB “By treating it as war, we actually legitimize the MILF’s staunch refusal to disarm…”

By: cvj

cvj — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 01:26:24 +0000

DJB, when i called what is happening in Mindanao as ‘War’, it was not to achieve a desired effect. It’s more an assessment of what kind of situation is prevailing i.e. war, not peace. I do acknowledge the existence of a continuum between ‘peace’ and ‘war’. (And I wouldn’t necessarily buy into the ‘War on terrorism’ narrative.)

BTW, slightly OT but i’m interested to get your take on this matter – if ‘war’ and ‘peace’ are loaded words, how then do you separate an ‘Orwellian’ from a non-Orwellian usage. Or do you think, when it comes to these loaded words, we’re all Orwellians now?

By: Ding G. Gagelonia

Ding G. Gagelonia — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 00:23:32 +0000

Thanks, DJB Most appropriate that you describe ‘war’ as a meme. When Dawkins first introduced the work, it did provoke wide discussion and enriched the language. Am trying to jog my head as to the appropriate contextual translation of meme would be and ‘matalinghaga’ comes to mind. But to your point again on “desired effect.” I think to those now at the front lines, the “effect” of the current ‘disturbance is really beyond words as to the trauma it is etching into their consciousness and the rest of us.

BTW, sir, really itching to have coffee with you now, soon. :)

By: Dean Jorge Bocobo

Dean Jorge Bocobo — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 23:13:29 +0000

cvj,
Words like “war” and “peace” are not ordinary words. As powerful memes, they are always used (or they use you) for some “desired effect” (this is also my explanation of that usage, Ding).

When we use a word like war to refer to a situation like Mindanao then, what is the “desired effect” that we want?

In my case, if I were an Orwellian controller, I would definitely want the word war to have a desired effect, namely to mobilize ALL the resources of the country in order to win that war and defeat the enemy. If we are at war, whether offensive or defensive, victory is not only the central objective, it is the most merciful one. In this sense, and as the evidence begins to mount in that direction, we may soon reach the consensus that it is actually a war on terrorism.

Again as memes, we use certain words like these for a “desired effect”.

Why do you prefer to use the word “war” to refer to the action now? What is your desired effect?

By: Noel

Noel — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 19:42:53 +0000

Commanders Bravo and Kato unilaterally (and in disrespect of the MILF Chairman) took it upon themselves to attack the villages, kill civilians, loot homes, take civilian shields.

Kabalu and the MILF leadership can not even tell Kato and Bravo to return to central-headquarters (to discuss military strategies or whatnot), so they say they will not do what they can not do (relieve Kato and Bravo of their commands).

By: Philman

Philman — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 13:52:15 +0000

cvj and djb,

Let me keep this simple for you pundits: before there were nation-states, WAR (i.e. the waging of hostilities aginst an enemy) was between brothers, families, tribes, empires, etc.

By: cvj

cvj — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 12:44:12 +0000

DJB, imho it’s war without the adjectives.

By: Dean Jorge Bocobo

Dean Jorge Bocobo — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 12:29:40 +0000

Ding,
I share the sentiment and know what you mean, but “prayerful thoughts” are often reduced to wishful thinking by the realities of Mindanao. Whatever we call such a violent conflict, the worst thing about it is that no side ever wins. The MILF can’t win because it doesn’t actually have a critical mass behind its violent methods or ultimate goals. The govt can’t win because NO govt can win militarily against a determined guerilla movement. The Vietnamese proved that long ago, and Al Qaeda has even taken the offensive. Popularity and moral ascendancy are NOT necessary for the protracted wars and indefinite survival of such movements.

But the narrative we tell ourselves and the public in order to make sense of these terrible events decisively affects our subsequent attitudes, decisions and actions. So let me try to take up the question I asked CVJ. Here is a way of looking at events:

It’s the aftermath of a kidnapping in which we are all still hostages held at gunpoint by the MILF wanting their own nation-state at our expense and because of what supposedly our ancestors did to get Spain’s protection from their ancestors. The MOA-AD was a “promisory note” for the eventual ransom pay-off. Since GMA could not deliver, the kidnappers are killing off some of the hostages. Because that ransom payment wasn’t going to get paid, the kidnappers decided to kill and burn and use as human shields some of the 90 million hostages. And of course they are also using the Moros as human shields by hiding in Muslim communities now.

I guess that is my “literary” description of what is going on, and the reason why I don’t think the term “war” or any of the variants offered describes the situation very well, and never has.

By: Ding G. Gagelonia

Ding G. Gagelonia — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 08:38:11 +0000

DJB,Rom,cvj,

This Black Sunday in Maguindanao, Cotabato, and Lanao Norte up to 100 Moro fighters are reported to have died in the latest clashes while up to 50,00o families are said to have fled their homes.

Whatever adjective, whatever label applies here, the situation is getting bad, really bad. My own prayerful thoughts go to friends in Datu Piang and Iligan, along with Tacurong City.

By: Dean Jorge Bocobo

Dean Jorge Bocobo — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 08:09:30 +0000

cvj,
I did not really offer a definition of war, just a plea for “proportion” and “perspective”. I’ve already conceded the error of my ways in trying to gain Orwellian control over others and the meaning of a three letter word that everyone lays claim to.

But I am curious. How would you characterize the situation in Mindanao of the last week or so: war? all-out war? civil war? police action? revolution? terrorist tantrum?

are there any categories that don’t belong to either war or peace?

(It would be okay too if you were just playing word games and don’t really want to be precise at this point.)