Andreas Notter, one of the two Swiss hostages of the Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG), has reportedly been either wounded or killed. Reports on the ground tell of an alleged flight of the terror group from their lair in Indanan to a now undisclosed location. Allegedly, Notter was hit or killed when the ASG was assuming defensive positions. The AFP said that the group has now split into four groups, anticipating an assault. The Al Harakatul Al Islamiya’s Amir Yasser Igaman is holding the remaining hostages, though, again, there is really no proof at this point that these hostages are still alive. Conflicting reports even said, though again let me reiterate this is still being validated, that all of the hostages have been killed.
If these reports are true, then, this is just a sad flashback into 2000 when the ASG killed their hostages just to flee from attacks. It shows how poorly government handled this international concern considering that it has all the resources and all the personnel to avert such a disaster.
Yet, it is most distressing, even appalling, that the ASG has resorted to this killing. This act is most violative of the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and the Noble Qu’ran. Innocents should never be harmed during a war under the Banner of Islam. With this purported killing, this is most atrocious and serve not just a reminder of how brutal this group is, but highlights the true nature of the group as purely bandits, instead of Noble and Pious Slaves of Allah SWT under the Banner of Islam. The purity of the Bangsamoro struggle has been tainted by the precious blood of the innocents.
And if these Muslims think that their deeds have been accepted by Allah SWT, I call their attention to Sunah 18: 103-104 of the Noble Qu’ran which states that good deeds shall only be accepted if it follows two basic conditions: acts should be for the glory and fame of Allah SWT, not for self-glorification; and two, it follows the acts of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Beyond these, says the Sahih Bukhari, are innovations.
Having said that, let me urge all Muslims around the world and People of the Book (Christians) to pray that this distressing news is not true. Pray for the safety of these innocents, who dedicated their entire lives for the welfare of the poor, the orphans and the widows in their affliction; yet, is now being punished for their pious deeds. Pray for their families. Invoke the Name of God and make solidarity marches to ask God to allow the release of these hostages. Never ask for mercy to these bandits. They are not gods. And if they think they are gods, they are not Muslims. Appeal to God for intercession. And God will give us what our hearts desire.
Popularity: 3% [?]
why can’t you lament the killing of the innocents without, on the same breath, taking potshots at the government’s effort to enforce the law and go after the cold-blooded murderers? how else would you handle lowlifes who make beheading their victims an instrument of trying to get whatever it is they want? hundreds, if not thousands, innocents die each day in the world in the hands of evildoers. without minimizing the worth of the IRC hostages, this tragedy is inevitable in a dangerous world such as we have.
I think, Bencard, the reason for also taking a hard stance against government action is that it seems to be all for naught. When they lack the political will to finish the job, when local warlords have as much say in these situations as the national government does, it reeks of politics instead of doing a better job for the entire body politic.
You see, this government lacks resolve, it lacks the trust of the people, and both are needed if they are to win the hearts and minds of those on the ground. This is an insurgency, and by both not honoring the resolve to go at these bandits once an for all, and by themselves also possibly crossing the lines of human rights, peace will never be achieved by this administration.
These insurgents will always remain, so long as their backers have political connections, and so long as the government decides that it is not within their political interest to do what is demanded of them, and that is to increase the pressure during times of lull. Kidnapping after kidnapping makes for a very unstable region, there can be no peace with madmen, we have tried negotiations without the desired result.
It keeps being actions that are reactionary instead of being proactive. To always be on the defensive is to let these bandits control the tempo of this insurgency. And thus, we have allowed it to drag on this long.
These are extremists, they have only one thing in mind, and that is the destruction of society itself to feed their egotistical need to validate their extremist views that no one except those who kill in the name of their very own religion shall be saved in the life after this.
Once government realizes the need to finally end a conflict that cripples an entire region, then that will be the day that we can back the decision of this government.
Pleeeeeaseeee! They are not insurgents. They are bandits to make a quick buck in the guise of insurrection.
That area there in Malacca strait prowls the bandits, pirates who take refuge in cluster of islands in Sulu.
Malacca is patrolled by zero-tolerance Singaporeans that clamped down on their nefarious activities. So they make a living-off the clueless, oblivious government in which our pekeng-peryodistas branded as insurgents to give it a cachet.
Our pekeng-peryodistas should made as an exchange to Red Cross. Beheaded, grilled, slathered with margarine and skinned.
That’s what I’ve been haranguing for a long time, our opinion is formed by these ignorant fools masquerading as 4th estate.
Dont worry Mr. Pacifico…ikaw ang ipapasunod kong kidnapin di lang ng mga Abu Sayyaf kundi mga Sparrows. Masama tama mo. Masama din dila mo. Kailangang putulin na yan.
Don’t worry about kidnapping, Patricio. I’m untouchable. Ask your American government …
If you cannot tell a head from a tail, too bad. You are not contributing anything to American government but CENSURESHIP!
Wouldn’t you be the one protesting if your American government imposed CENSURESHIP?
I ASK YOU! IT’S A LOGICAL QUESTION!
HAVE YOU EVER JOINED ABCNEWS.COM COMMENT OPTIONS? TRY IT, DUDE. SO YOU CAN LEARN.
THE FILIPINO NEXT TO YOU OR IN THIS BLOG ARE NOT AMERICANS WHAT YOU THINK THEY ARE!!!!
YOU HAVE A BALIKBAYAN FULL OF CULTURAL BAGGAGE.
GET OVER IT!
well…bencard…it’s quite obvious that government is bungling its job. look…is it real hard to give an order for troop pullout if it means saving the lives of these hostages? i mean, come on. inevitable you say? are you joining the ranks of government apologists who are conditioning our minds to accept the fate of these innocents?
since the time of your Gloria, these irrational and evil acts have not abatted. how else would government handle lowlifes? By acting at the very least that they care for the welfare of every human life, which, they did’nt do
Pat,
peace be upon you, and to all.
there is no debate whatsoever that what the ASG and other terrorists here and there are doing is in no way in accordance, therefore an anathema to Islam, though they “discriminately” invoke Islam of their misdeeds – and that is indeed a great shame on them.
the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wasallam has been clear on this point:
http://www.luwaran.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=657:milf-calls-on-abu-sayyaf-to-free-icrc-workers&catid=81:moro-news&Itemid=372
unfortuntely, many an “uninformed” but indiscrimnately lump, say the MILF, together with these organizations. Like those self-proclaimed anti-terrorism “experts” abuza zackary, rohan gunaratna, and a local simulating copycat wenceslao menardo who only get information from military intelligence.
Just like the famous line of what has been branded as a “narrow-minded” philippine president Erap, “pare-pareho lang yan sila!”
but we know some political, military and finacial gains by those behind these series of kidnappings. now that money has been taken out of the negotiation with the ASG, where are now the likes of Robert Aventijado who successfully convinced the ASG to release their captives in the past?
During those recent cases, kidnappings were used by the military as pretexts to attack MILF lairs. Since there has been cessation of hostility truces signed between the GRP and MILF peace panels both at panel and technical levels; military psywar experts and hawkish generals have to, say, employ the instrumentality of a local bandit group who happened to be, say, Maguindanaons (not Muslims,) snatch important individuals and in artful orchestration, such group would retreat ultimately with their victims towards any MILF redoubt. Thence firefights eventually ensue between the MILF and the AFP troops. Afterwards, the military shall be boldly enumerating a bloated list of MILF casualties, not kidnappers KIA’s.
This happened during those all-out-wars: the GRP told in 2000 that the military campaign was designed to pursue extortionist groups along the Narciso Ramos high way; and, in 2003 all-out-war, that is, after PGMA proclaimed her “all-out-peace” policy with the MILF, a supposed 360 degree departure from her predecessor’s in 2000, the military once again launched another war at Pikit in order to catch and destroy kidnappers hiding inside the Buliok Complex, the second strong-hold of the MILF.
It was during the verbal exchanges between vice-governor Pinol and GRP peace panel head Gen. Esperon that the latter told what’s all about these attacks:
“I said remember this is not the year 2000 … when we had a national policy of capturing and occupying MILF camps, … and I said the policy had changed. We are pursuing the peace process.”
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/nation/view/20080807-153138/Charges-apologies-mark-Dureza-Piol-Esperon-tiff
Note that the May 2002 Joint Communique mandates joint interdiction, etc., of criminal elements in the area by the AFP/PNP and MILF; but the military never complied with it on the ground during those times because, they told, it will preempt and jeopardize its operation when they coordinate with the MILF.
Anyway, all i know is that the military had finished this ASG during Angelo Reyes’ stint as the AFP chief. But here they are again!
hi danilo,
for as long as Imperial Manila do not recognize these three historical facts: that Mindanao was peopled by the Muslims prior to Spanish colonization; that Mindanao was never part of the Treaty of Paris and was only made as part of the archipelago through a treacherous act and that the Bangsamoro people only want peace and development under a self-governing condtion, the Bangsamoro struggle will remain for as long as it needs to.
http://midfield.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/breaking-news-shots-fired-one-of-sulu-hostages-hurt-bad/
Does anyone know why we couldn’t get a handle on the ransom demand by Abu Sayaff? Because they are asking a very embarassing demand that go right into the heart of the pekeng-peryodistas.
Abu Sayaf wanted his baby Ces Drilon is nursing :) Biro only :)
hi renato,
below the belt naman yan. kahit na me smiley ka pa, libelous yang sinulat mong yan Mr. Pacifico. Di ka na tama dyan! Sobra ka na nyan. Wala ka nang decency nyan!
Kailangan ka na sigurong patahimikin, Mr. Pacifico.
mr. pacifico,
wala kang paggalang sa mga babae. hindi nakakatawa ang ginawa mo dito. napaka bastos mo. kung kilala lang kita, kung malapit ka lang sa akin, makakatikim ka sa akin ng di mo pa natitikman mula sa nanay mo—lalamugin ko mukha mo sa pagbabastos mo ke Ces.
wala kang karapatang bastusin ang isang babae at ginagalang na Pilipina na tulad ni Ces Drilon.
wala ka pang napapatunayan sa bayan, pero kung laitin mo at bastusin ang kababaihan, ganyan ka siguro pati sa mga kapatid mo at nanay mo.
Isn’t misinforming Filpinos below the belt? The 4th estate WALANG KAGALANG-GALANG SA MGA FILIPINOS!
Our opinions are formed by their incessant harangue of misinformation, unjournalistic news gathering and reporting.
Now, who is WALANG KAGALANG-GALANG?
If the media practitioners wanted to respected they have to respect us by respecting JOURNALISTIC ETHICS.
We are bamboozled by these card-carrying press corp.
Patricio! ang bato, lunukin!!! Mag-Darna mode ka na…
Renato,
I have had it with you and your drivel.
I am NOW aking the FV Collective TO BAN YOU.
It’s a bit unfair, what about patricia’s bonggacious ballistic moves? He reacted badly first and renato just spoke something in general; is tikya guilty of renato’s safe statement?
Rag-tag team of ABu Sayaff squirmed thru the clutches of “professionals” commanded by PMAyers? HOW CAN THAT BE? In a small island? IS THAT POSSIBLE? UNLESS, THEY ARE SOOOOO STUPID!!!!
In America, West-point graduates’ head would be rolling … In Philippines PMA graduates will still have their head together and the one’s head that rolls are the foot soldiers …
HA!HA!HA!HA! LAV YA PILIFINAS!!!! LAV YA!!!!!!
And Nick wanted to run in the Philippines???? Dios Mio ….
Nick, needed a pile of bible and plenty of rosary beads and amulet
KILLING OF INNOCENTS NOT HOLY.
Dang, ask the Vatican how many innocents they have killed in propagation of their faith …
Check Satan’s statistic how many Satan killed in propagation of Satan’s faith?
HAPPYT LENTEN SEASON …
JUDAS WAS A MARTYR ….
Check my website: http://judas_my_man.cum
I urge Nick to finally end these stupid comments by this character, Mr. Renato Pacifico. We don’t need to be assaulted by the baseness of this man, even falsely writing a sexual innuendo against the person of a highly respected journalist, Ces Drilon. This is too much already.
not trying to defend renato, but how is his manner of speech any different from that used by haters of the president in this blog or elsewhere in attacking her? his words may be abrasive but i don’t think he ever “assaulted” any FV commenter, writer or contributor as some passing insolent trolls would usually do. as a self-declared journalist, you ought to know that in silencing renato, you would start a trend and then, when do you stop?
regarding the policing of comments, i left a link to clive thompson’s column on how readers can “self regulate” comments:
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/magazine/17-04/st_thompson
i don’t know if it can be done here tho…
What’s stupid about it? I ask you? The title of the thread is KILLING OF INNOCENTS NOT HOLY.
My post is in direct conjunction to the thread? Isn’t it?
So, my questions, beg an answer. Who killed the most? God or Satan?
Isn’t my statement a logical consequence of the title of the thread?
HESUS MARIA JOSEF TABANGA ANG MGA PILIFINO …
Simple statement NAHIRAPAN PA!
WE’RE DOOOMED!
Renato,
It’s idiotic because your question does not have an answer. It’s stupid because it’s speculative and borders on the insane, just like what you wrote here about the Abu Sayyaf and Mrs. Ces Drilon.
Who killed the most? Is that a logical question? God is not God to those who don’t believe Him yet kill. Satan is god to some, not God to others. Do you even understand what I said here? Answer this if you’re really that intelligent or you’re just as stupid as what I think you really are.
I’d hate to see anyone go for merely expressing his ideas even it’s all crap. But Renato’s incessant jabbering is like ceaseless pounding of drums that deprived all spaces here in FV of civilize conversation.
If only Renato could moderate somehow his itch, then maybe we could live with him.
One thing for sure, I don’t express crappy idea. Crappy idea is illogical. Meaning, not logical. Meaning, dots do not tie in together.
THIS ONE IS CRAPPY: HEADLINE: Abu Sayaf extricate themselves from a dragnet of Philippine troops with their hostages.
LET’S APPLY LOGIC:
1. How can they extricate themselves if they are surrounded. ASSUMING, if they were surrounded. IF THEY WERE NOT, therefore, our troops commander has CRAPPY LOGIC. Therefore, head should roll so to speak.
2. How can they move around with TWO TISOYS without being spotted?
3. How can they move around without being spotted without bazookas, M16s and all the regatta of uniforms?
NOW THAT IS CRAPPY LOGIC THAT NEVER WAS DUG INTO FOR US TO FORM A LOGICAL OPINION.
I tell you guys, I fill in the dots for you that our 4th estate conveiently left-out.
Wouldn’t you be incensed if American press do that for you? You’d be the first to protest in AMerica, right?
URRRRGHHH, I FORGOT, I’M DEALING WITH FILIPINOS WHO HAS BALIKBAYAN FULL OF CULTURAL BAGGAGE!
Let’s put it this way, Renato.
I say, “Renato is a genius!” If you are really is a genius my statement is true and logical, right? Ang tuwa mo pa.
But if I repeat my statement, “Renato is a genius!”, “Renato is a genius!”, “Renato is a genius!”, Renato is a genius!”, Renato is a genius!” over and over again…that’s crap already. Magagalit ka na, sasabihin mo para na akong nakakaloko niyan. Logical ‘di ba?
well, in this I agree with you. Heads should roll precisely because these military leaders are bungling their jobs.
however, lest you break into joy, let me disabuse your mind and deconstruct what you think is your logic:
1. Who want to extricate themselves from?
2. Your use of the term “tikoy” smacks of your racial bias. You think ASG are not white or light-skinned? That lahat ng ASG not light-skinned? Katangahan yan.
3. What if I say that the ASG’s are wearing AFP uniforms themselves? What if someone tell you that they are wearing camoflaged suits? Or that they look like ordinary soldiers?
Who now has crapy logic, Mr. Pacifico.
Crappy logic is when someone assaults a lady and insinuates that she was raped by her captors. That is the crappiest logic anyone can say here.
what dots, ha, Mr. Pacifico?
what valuable data or info have you even wrote here? everything you wrote here are either crappy logic or senseless info that the 4th estate precisely and conveniently left out because it’s totally devoid of rationality.
Renato’s is a good otnic, to wake people up from all the phoeny Politicla Correctness.
Sheesh – call a spade a spade.
hi bong,
renato a good otnic? what are the things that Renato said here that would wake people up? and what are those phoney political correctness? what are the things that would allow him to “call a spade a spade”?
is insinuating that a hostage has been raped and has sired a son qualifies with what you demand here, ha, Mr. Bong V? is that what you call calling a spade a spade?
is writing that tanga mga military because they did’nt see two tisoys with an armed group which he insinuates are not light-skinned, a thing that would “wake people up”? Whoa.
OK. Guys! I’m overwhelmed! I’LL TONE IT DOWN!
My tongue is now tied.
RP,
My advice to you is don’t drink chardonnay while blogging. It makes you hyper and folks here at Filipino Voices, sensitive and conservative, might find your comments loud and vexing. :)
You gotta sip the expensive Remy Martin or Hennessy cognac to make you more erudite and romance the crowd. :)
Celso, you say SENSITIVE and CONSERVATIVE as in AGED, OLD and CRANKY? That’s not a nice way to say to these gentlemen …
Bahalina in Remy Martin I have it :) I don’t sip it! I GULP IT!
i advise that YOU DON’T TONE IT DOWN. DON’T TIE YOUR TONGUE JUST NOW.
SIGE PA,LET’S CONTINUE THIS MR. PACIFICO. I’M JUST STARTING TO HEAT MYSELF UP.
Instead of asking that Nick ban you from this site, LET’S JUST DEBATE AND DECONSTRUCT EVERY SHRED OF WHAT YOU SAY ARE “NON-CRAPPY” LOGIC OF YOURS AND LET’S JUST PROVE IF REALLY YOUR “PEKENG PERYODISTA” THEORY REALLY HOLDS UP.
I advise you to tone down para magkasya itong bikining ireregalo ko! hehehehe! Aminin mo na, broken arrow ka rin…
In the first place who was the bright guy who sent an IC Red Cross team when they ought to be sending a IC Red Crescent team.
That action is the equivalent of preaching Christianity in KSA. Try doing that and you will land in jail.
Eh di sapak ng ASG ang inabot ng team na ipinadla.
Pastilan ka bugok ba diay ning ICRC.
Hi bong,
well…Senator Gordon happens to be the head of the International Committee on the Red Crescent, I heard? Red Cross volunteers, by the way, are also members of the Red Crescent, someone from Gordon’s staff told me.
but, why blame the Red Cross for sending Lacaba, etal? I mean, blame the kidnappers for even thinking of getting them and holding them all these time.
Red Cross, by the way, is a non-sectorian, non-religious and non-government organization. IN all countries, they are viewed as “neutral”.
You mean sectarian, right? Communications manager ha…
Magladlad ka na kasi… nagpipigil ka pa eh… we’re non-sectarian and non-conformist dito sa FV. We’ll still accept you. nyehehehe
Bong V.
What exactly are you saying then? That Red Cross should serve ONLY in Christian communities? And the Red Crescent ONLY in Muslim communities?
That smacks of religious apartheid, — apart from going against common sense in a real disaster. Besides ought we not to promote religious toleration instead of enforcing divisions among cultures and peoples?
DJB,
I think that is not what Bong V tries to mean here; I think what he means is “putting things in proper context” as the Abu Sayyaf’s thinking is not as smart and progressive as yours – and that is no religious apartheid.
But no, religion is not the biggest matter here for the Abu Sayyaf. Last few days after the ICRC folks were abducted, a Sri Lankan staff of the Non-Violent Peace Force was also snatched in the area.
The Abu Sayyaf is sure that the Philippine government will just ignore its gesture if it just calls for mere PressCon and unfurl its “cause.” As we know, the ASG instead prefers even more foreign nationals because that’s how they can command the attention of not just the Philippine government but also and even international interest.
FOR EVERYONE’S INFORMATION, I HAVE SENT TO MESSAGE TO NICK, FV’S ENC:
Nick,
I have never asked you of this— BUT NOW I DO… KINDLY BAN THIS RENATO PACIFICO NOW.
WE CANNOT LET THE FV COLLECTIVE BE MADE A LAUGHING STOCK OF.
I LIKEWISE TAKE PERSONAL UMBRAGE AT HIS THOROUGHLY BASELESS AND DISRESPECTFUL IMPUTATION AGAINST CES DRILON, A DEAR,DEAR FRIEND AND COLLEAGUE WHO IS A PROFESSIONAL OF THE HIGHEST ORDER
@ Atty, Ben,
Go ahead you are welcome to lawyer for that character. Be our guest.
@ GabbyD,
To make myself clear. I do not advocate a wholesale crackdown of any sort.
FV has clear comment parameters.
This character has been banned once before.
I am in conversation with the FV TEAM.
We do not intend to allow FV to waste away and let it descend into such abysmal levels as that character presumes he can drag it to.
Ces Drilon, I repeat, is a PROFESSIONAL OF THE HIGHEST ORDER.
Her ordeal as a hostage of the Abu Sayyaf DID NOT IN ANYWAY DIMINISH HER CHARACTER, MOST OF ALL HER VIRTUE AS A MOTHER TO HER LOVELY CHILDREN.
oh no, no crackdown. the article is about ‘wisdom of the crowds’ self-policing. did you read the article? watcha think? its pretty cool actually. as a fan of TV, i visit Tvsquad.com and they have a similar rating system…
you’d need more complex code tho…
wisdom of the crowds only applies if there is, indeed, wisdom in those comments made by Mr. Pacifico.
Like Cheap Chow, Mr. Pacifico went beyond the recognized standards of decency, by:
1. disrespecting a Filipina
2. writing a comment that breaks the borders of decency in a modern society
Mr. Pacifico is urged to write his own blog and express whatever biases he has against Filipinas and against journalists, instead of poluting a site like FV with his crappy comments.
Ces Drilon is not a professional. She’s as blind as a mouse trap.
Did she interview Ayala over his new economic theory that terrorism is good for the economy?
Did she follow-up Makati Business Club invistigation over Glorieta Bombing? Because they themselves were uneasy of Ayala’s terrorism theory.
Did she festively report hearsays of Joey de Venecia instead of looking why Joey didn’t go to authorities instead?
Did she reflect on pekeng-peryodistas gleeful report on Joey de Venecia hearsay on ZTE?
… I GOT SOME MORE. PLENTY MORE QUESTIONS … YOU HAVE THE GALL TO CALL HER PROFESSIONAL?
BETTER CHECK YOUR BRAIN DING …. you are not a peryodista!!! YOU ARE A PARROT. LED, COMMANDED, CONTROLLED and you MEEKLY FOLLOW!!!!
Let’s deconstruct this:
1. Says Pacifico, ” Ces is not a professional. She’s as blind as a mouse trap.”
Incorrect, Mr. Pacifico. Ces is a professional, being employed by a reputable and highly recognized media organization and working there full-time. IN my book, that qualifies her as a media professional.
Correct, Mr. Pacifico. Mouse traps does not have eyes, but we can’t say their blind because mouse traps are obviously non-animate objects. Maybe you’re referring to mice?
From 2 to 4, well, those are NOT legitimate questions but CRAPPY ones, since they are just speculations of a dirty mind. I don’t even want to write about this CRAPPY thing about the Ayalas having this “economic theory” that “terrorism is good for the economy”. I mean, whoa.
ON DING being a “pekeng peryodista” who just follow, being led and whatever, well, Mr. Gagelonia is a member of the media collective since he was 17 years old. For quite some time now, Mr. Gagelonia has proven himself worthy in the struggle of the Filipino People. To say he’s a parrot because he follows, what Mr. Gagelonia follows is what everyone knows as journalistic ethics and the Code of Journalism.
ding, would you do it if it was the sitting president of the republic who is the subject of renato’s “drivel”? you would end this blog as fast as you could say “illegitimate” if you apply your “rule” to all of us here.
at any rate, i think renato has already promised to tie his tongue or, at least, “tone it down”.
I visited it. No argument there.
I am referring to this incident. No straight jackets needed.
Just good, decent behavior.
It will be intellectual gangsterism if we – collectively – move to boot out one Renato Pacifico for espousing worldviews diametrically opposed to that which we, one way or other, more commonly embrace.
For anyone to threaten him with libel betrays the purpose of FV as a blog site.
To close the gate so he can’t enter the next time around betrays the purpose of FV as a blog site.
For anyone to maul him physically until tomato juice comes out of his body is fascism
I do not subscribe to Skinner’s concept of ideal society where everyone – given the same set of stimuli – will have to behave in pretty much the same way.
To call FV as sensitive and conservative ought to be an insult not a compliment.
If we can take one bencard, what reason do we have not to take a renato ballistico?
Rand Corporation as a think tank does away with personality cult. Let’s just copy that.
the interesting thing about these techniques is that its not about censorship and banning. its about assigning ratings to comments and commenters.
each reader can have their own setting on which kinds of comments they can see. for example, one can choose to view comments with a rating higher than a certain value, for instance.
or another method is how lower ratings will make certain comments less prominent than others.
the catch is that it requires people to register first, and it requires code.
Mr. Karlpopper,
Nobody is threatening to file libel against Mr. Renato. No one. Hindi na kailangang i-threaten si Mr. Pacifico sapagkat ang isinulat niya ay talagang libelous.
Fascism ba ang ” for anyone to maul him physically until tomato juice comes out of his body”? No. Please Mr. Popper, check what Fascism means.
Though I subscribe to most of what you wrote. Like I said, let’s allow Mr. Renato to continue what he’s doing, but, never for the sake of being funny, at the expense of members of the mainstream media, and ESPECIALLY, Ms. Ces Drilon.
Mr. Pacifico is just as contemptuous as that Cheap Chow and worst, since he is, as he claims, a Filipino! Imbes na ikarangal ang mga tulad ni Ces Drilon, ginawan pa ng istorya!
Mr. Pacifico should write sa showbiz site.
When Lorelei Fajardo came in from nowhere with an anachronistic opening statement, no one even cried wolf?
In many other ways, Rene makes sense except that his chronic allergies for mainstream journalists is already beyond cure.
I hate Rene but not enough to want to have him leave our world – at least we know he is not an apologist for anyone.
“…at least we know he is not an apologist for anyone.”
Maybe not an apologist, but maybe an attack dog. :-)
We have yet to see how hard could he really be about the present administration.
yep, not an apologist but an attack dog.
i would want to know how much? Up d_grad, we know, is a paid commissionist for a fund-raising organization. I checked with my friend, who happens to work there and I know their accounts.
for Mr. Renato, he is not an apologist for simply he does’nt represent anyone except maybe his crappy self.
I agree with karlpopper.
Renato Pacifico is a colorful character. I think he is benign0′s Cebuano uncle ;), who blogs under-the-influnce (BUI) of chardonnay, and must have had bad/sad experience with pekeng-peryodistas. Nagaya na tuloy ako!
See, the fellow has been with us barely a week he has contributed to the lingo of FV. We want right of reply. :)
I gather that Benign0 is a Cebuano. So is Nick. So am I. So are the major bloggers including ones in minor league …
You are right there Phil. I hope BUI(Bloggging-under-the-influence)is not an offense. I do drink and blog and take my psychotrophic medicaation.
My psychiatrist says blogging, joining forums, Friendster :) , is good a good therapy … :) and helping educate Filipinos, too.
I have cancelled my Friendster account. It got a narrow audience because they have to log-in to post their comments. Here in FV, trolls can post-and-run without log-ins.
Well, I envy you if you are in fact living in Cebu. You can get out of the house more and enjoy the sun, the beach, the sinugba, and the pretty Cebuanas. :;
Virtual romance (blogging, Friendster, etc) cannot replace actual loving.
So, what are your plaints and grievance against ‘peryodistas’?
Phil, peryodistas are dumbing the Filipinos with idiotic news reports.
On Cebu, Cebu City and Cebu, as a whole, is a friendly province. Cebu City is a compact community sprinkled with existing archetectural artifacts within walking distance of each other. We have “prestine” beaches that are now like Malibu, California hemmed-in, off-limits, riff-raffed, corraled, fenced by moat-and-draw-bridge guarded by Blackwater boys. These million-dollar riff-raff of a fence has become an eye-sore. Ingress and egress is to the “wealthy”.
Cebu City is ruined by immigrants from nearby islands. I don’t even know our neighbors anymore.
Our Cebuanas gone to Manila. Manilenas gone to America.
Like America … Bisdaks are in the East … tangalog are in the West… West are dominated by veterans and decendants of Ilocano plantation workers from Hawaii …
Aaaaaah … East Coast … Bisdaks … immigrated thru labor employment … Its likely when you bumped a Filipina in NYC they’re likely nurses (NYTimes survey) … So is Nick. A Bisdak. East Coast resident …
mr. pacifico,
so you’re beef is that peryodistas are NOT writing the real Cebu? Pekeng peryodistas are dumbing the Filipinos with idiotic news? What news are you referring here? Be clear.
based on what you wrote here, you’re lamenting on the progress and development happening…ah, so you’re having a Future shock? Well, don’t blame it to anyone. Read more. Understand the dynamics of development.
Bistaks? That’s a pretty good work to start a blog with. Mag blog ka na Mr. Pacifico na ang term ay Bistaks. Pare-pareho pala tayong taga Visayas eh.
Once we fix the arrogant, pompous, condescending PEKENG-PERYODISTAS, Once we PROFESSIONALIZE their profession, THAT’S THE ONLY TIME THE FILIPINO PEOPLE, BLOGGERS, FORUMERS, ON-LINE COMMENTATORS will have formed a informed opinion …
THERE WERE TWO WHISTLEBLOWERS: Joey de Venecia on ZTE against brown-skin-punked-nose-shorty-Filipino AND Justice Sabio against MERALCO’s tisoys and tisays …
WHOM DID THE GODS(pekeng-peryodistas) WISH TO DESTROY? Aberrrr …
IS THAT PROFESSIONALISM or PMPOUS ARROGANCE OF BIAS?
As what Max Soliven has said “THE MEDIA ALWAYS HAS THE LAST WORD”
In my case it will be Nick has the last word and you bloggers …
WHO HAS HEARD OF MAX SOLIVEN’S Alikabok J Alikabok? It’s Max’s mole, the deep throat, in Marcos’ inner circle. Max lost credibility when his Alikabok J Alikabok was used by Marcos to destroy his credibility …
I just wonder if you were old enough to remember this …
and what’s your view of professionalism? you’re referring to media gangsterism? but, you are guilty of the same offense, my friend.
you falsely ascribed something very personal to someone who you don’t even know. How would you professionalize the ranks when you are not even a member of this group of professionals you are so assiduously want to reform? at the very least, you are a trying hard writer. By doing that against Ms. Drilon, you are as guilty as the “pekeng peryodistas” you so want to attack here.
I think based on what you wrote here, you’re just a paid attack dog, paid probably by Chardonnay or some lambanog, yes? If lambanog yan, share ka naman. I don’t drink Chardonney. JUst basi and lambanog. Sarap yata yang iniinom mo.
“Whom did the GOds wish to destroy”? Were you a victim before? You know those whose reputations were reportedly destroyed by pekeng peryodistas are, seriously, really guilty. Nabuko lang. Maybe ikaw ang isa sa mga nabuko? O, nabukulan?
Mahilig ka sa buko at bukol ha! I-confirm mo na, lumabas ka na sa closet. hehehe…
… and the Philippine Star including Max and his pipe is gone … it became a Tabloid of sorts
well…. dili man ako approve dyan sa sinabi mo now that Philippine Star became a tabloid of sorts. What is a tabloid, you know? “Tabloid of sorts”, because of the sensationalism, the high-handiness, etc. kaya tingin mo tabloid na? How would you professionalize the ranks when you don’t even know the difference between broadsheets and tabloids?
Naks naman! Broadsheet, mahaba… Tabloid kalahati ng broadsheet… mag-kaiba sila ng tono, audience at format. Mas mura ang tabloid, mas seryoso ang broadsheet.
At ikaw tabloid at kalahating gago ka!
Ako, reklamo ko lang, sobrang ingay ni Renato, hindi na magkaintindihan ang mga matitinong nagu-usap dito sa FV. Para bang, kapag nagsalita ka makikiraan ka muna sa kanyang mga sinasabi na pagkarami-rami, at marami pa ang pasigaw, at paulit-ulit, iyon-iyon din ang sinasabi. Aywan ko kung tatagal tayo, ang FV, ng ganito. Baka hindi.
Kaya nga nakikiusap sana kay Renato na siya na ang mag-moderate sa kanyang sarili para tumagal pa ng maraming-maraming mga taon pa itong ating mahal na FV.
Saan ka naman nakakita ng blogsite na kayo, kayong mga bida rito sa FV, at magagaling na lalaki at babae sa larangan ng blogosphere at msm, eh, natatabunan ng paulit-ulit na salita ng isang commenter?
It’s like the famous quip, “The tail wagging the dog”, heheh.
I’m furious sa MSM. I’m annoyed at people who are patronizing to our Philippine Press without them critiquing their reporting and news gathering as if it’s a gospel of truth.
I’m rubbing it in, Bert. You and I and everyone in this blog know that Filipinos have attention deficit disorder. They have short memories. I’M RUBBING IT IN UNTIL IT HURTS.
Only when it hurts they remember the pain and what caused it.
Blogs has an average of 15 regular member/readers/commentators, so we are like shouting, screaming and kicking in the forest without them hearing us.
I want to change Philippines. So do you. How can we change Philippines when we are patronizing festivity of ignorance from these arrogant media practitioners?
We could have gotten GMA if pekeng-peryodistas used their little gray matters. We could have gotten MERALCO if pekeng-peryodistas virtually and suddenly became legal think-tank to protect MERALCO.
Where was the legal think-tank when Joey went to pekeng-peryodistas?
Huh?
Is this want you want the Philippines to be?
LET’S RUB IT IN. I’m banned from pekeng-peryodistas sites! I sent these columnistas e-mails commenting on their columns it seems they tag me as “junk e-mail”.
They don’t want to hear it.
Of course, they write to feed their families not to change the Philippines. I POST TO CHANGE THE PHILIPPINES’s culture of ignorance.
kasi naman kasalanan mo rin Mr. Pacifico bakit tingin ng mga “pekeng peryodista” ay junk mail ang mga pinapadala mo, o kaya tingin nila eh, email ng isang psychotic staker ang tingin sa iyo.
kasi nga, walang kawawaan mga sinasabi mo. paulit-ulit na parang me tama sa ulo ang pagsusulat. you want to critique Philippine media? yung mga sinusulat? bakit, ano ba ang tingin mo sa katotohanan? multi-faceted yan. depende sa tumitingin. wag mong sabihing yan ang gusto mong baguhin? impossible dream yan, Mr. Pacifico.
galit ka sa MSM dahil ikaw mismo ay hindi makapagsulat tulad nila. dahil nga, kasalanan mo Mr. Pacifico. Basura mga sinusulat mo. Pano ka nyan seseryosohin.
You post to change the Philippines’s culture of ignorance? Whoa. Messianic ka pala. Kung ganyan ang gusto mo, okey yan. Tama yan. Pero, tingin ko, sa palagay ko lang, lalala sitwasyon ng Pilipinas mismo kapagka ikaw na bigyan ng sambayanan ng karapatang baguhin ang Pinas.
So is everybody done?
I’ve said my piece.
This is a free Collective. Bring it ti where you want it to go. I wait for the mechanism/s that will bring civility, decency and sanity back.
The Holy Koran forbids killing of helpless people. It is one of
the tenets of Islam faith. Unfortunately, we have misguided people
who twisted and perverted the faith for their personal ambition.
Islam is the next largest religion on Earth before Christianity. We
have Filipinos who adhere to the Islamic faith. We must not be ignorant about the faith. Otherwise, we will not be able to deal with other Filipinos…insurgency and killings will continue.
Osama Bin Laden who started the Al Queda Jihad to spread Islam. He
thought that he can establish Caliphate. When his Jihadist Mujahedin
had driven out the Russians from Afghanistan. Unfortunately, the reality is: It is because of U.S. support in money and materials. Especially those Shoulder Arm Missile Launchers that shot down Russian Helicopters that did the Job. Bin Laden is suffering from
paranoia.
There are two cases of war! Religion and economics. The most atrocious vindictive of wars is Religion. Dominance of faith. Faith is based on the strength.
Take the case of Filpinos. How many times have you heard, “pare, magsuntokan na lang tayo?” Here, in the Philppines, debate is settled thru fist-fights.
The cause of Philippines muck is religion. 480 years of prayers went unanswered.
Let’s protest before the church! I’m tired of protesting the government! But it’s better protesting the government we get answers. … and the church? Your answer is good as mine…
let’s deconstruct what Mr. Pacifico wrote here…
1. there are two cases of war? maybe he’s referring to two cases of beer? Read all literature about war and there are no two cases of war. There are many cases of war.
“the most atrocious vindictive of wars”? Papasa ba sa editor ang ganitong statement eh, mukhang mali yata ah. “atrocious vindictive”?
” faith is based on the strength”…of what? mukhang ito rin di papasa sa editor.
” take the case of Filipinos. How many times have you heard, ” pare, magsuntokan na lang tayo?. Here in the Philippines, debate is settled thru fist-fights.” Is this a truthful or a fallacious statement? Do you have facts to support this? Is this a recurring incident?
” the cause of Philippines muck is religion. 480 years of prayers went unanswered.”—Again, do you have basis?
” Let’s protest before the church!” What Church are you referring to? The Catholic Church? The Church of God? The Iglesia ni Cristo? What Church? Be clear. Be concise. Dito pa lang, siguradong itinapon na ng mga editor sa basurahan itong sinulat mo dito, Mr. Renato.
Now, I challenge others who support Mr. Renato’s stay here—nasasaan ang lohika sa mga comento ni Mr. Renato?
Kaya tayo pagtatawanan dito at bababa ang bilang ng mga magbabasa dito sa FV dahil attack dog talaga itong si Mr. Pacifico, hindi rational commenter. Hindi nakakatulong sa pagtataas ng kamalayan ang mga sinusulat ni Mr. Renato. Kabaligtaran ang maaaring maganap–lalo tayong mabobobo dito ke Mr. Renato.
Tasio, what you said here today is true.
But understanding the issue on “militant Muslims” especially during these modern times should not be detached away from the context of global imperialism and neo-colonialism.
As I have been saying, the onslaught of Western imperialism in the crafty guise of democracy gave birth to this breed of suicide bombers. What is even sadder is the conspiracy in public opinion that war of defense is readily equated to terrorism, especially with the case of the Muslims, while wars of invasion go as the order of the day with impunity.
On the first place, defense of oneself is not a matter of faith, as anyone can also defend him\herself and resist colonization and imperialism that threatens one’s humanity even without the necessity to invoke faith.
The likes of Jim Hightower, Michael Moore, Molly Ivins, and Al Franken have been trying to explain that it’s the American foreign policy i.e. invasion that stokes up violence in the Middle East and elsewhere.
During World War II. The Japanese Militarist used, Religion of
Worship of their Emperor to conquer countries, including the
Philippines. To die for the Emperor was a noble deed then. Japan’s Emperor Hirohito was seen as a “living God”. Since the “living God” was their Ruler. They believe they cannot Lose a War.
There were even KAMIKAZE Pilots, version of Islamic Suicide Bombers now.
KAMIKAZE Pilots filled their planes with bombs. And crashed it on
U.S. warships. A lot of U.S. warship were sunk on this kind of
suicide warfare. We are facing the same type of Religious Fanatics
in our times. They are determined to die and are determined to kill.
It is only in helping these people redefine their faiths, that we
can solve the problem. To get them to their senses.
ito ang rational comment, a prime example.
tama! lakas tama mo chong!
Sun*Star Columnista Nalzar seldom makes logical statements but this one I agree from him regarding Tsing Tsao
http://www.sunstar.com.ph/cebu/nalzaro-being-servants
mr. renato,
stick ka naman sa isyu…wag mong samahan ng Tsing Tsao topic, okey? mukhang na memental na tayo bok.
dun ito sa isang topic….pakisulat ito dun sa ibang topic, hane?
mr. renato,
stick ka naman sa isyu…wag mong samahan ng Tsing Tsao topic, okey? mukhang na memental na tayo bok.
dun ito sa isang topic….pakisulat ito dun sa ibang topic, hane?
Stick ka dyan! Patpatin kaya kita! nyaahahaha
So… are we back to the main topic of this particular post?
“Killing of Innocents not Holy”
What about the biblical account in the old testament wherein the God of the Jews commanded Saul, the very first king of the Israelites, to annihilate the entire race of the Amelekites, nothing to spare not even the sucklings. How much innocent can sucklings be?
Are there situations where killing of innocents can be a just or a right thing?
Going by the Bible, the death of the sucklings is justified.
Ishmael, do you think it’s justified if it’s your suckling?
@ Atty. Banjamin Cardinez,
Your “ding, would you do it if it was the sitting president of the republic who is the subject of renato’s “drivel”? you would end this blog as fast as you could say “illegitimate” if you apply your “rule” to all of us here.”
Yes I will not dishonor GMA as a Filipina.
The matter of her actions as a “de jure” leader involve her character as a public official who is accountable to the people, the true sovereigns.
Her mis-governance is not an attack on her virtue as a Filipina.
Claro que si???
and where did you get the basis to assail her character? who are you to judge her? what is your understanding of “mis-governance”? something that you or the likes of you don’t agree with?
so it’s alright for renato to pepper this blog with drivel so long as it is directed against the president? c’mon, man.
You conveniently misread, Atty Ben.
I will not, I do not, question GMA’s virtue as a Filipina, as a woman.
As for my point of view about how she refuses to be accountable and stonewalls versus the truth. That is MY view.
That you have a problem with that is not news to me and many other Filipinos.
Seen her latest trust numbers?
The truly blind are those who refuse to see.
I come across a google video that might interest the readers of this particular post. The video is relevant to the title of this post which is “Killing of Innocents not Holy.”
The google video is titled “What the West Needs to Know about Islam.”
The link address is:
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-8105709395775858867
one of the guy said in the video, that the choice is either a literal interpretation VS a non-literal interpretation…
there is no central authority in interpretation, so people may interpret the book however they wish.
there are other interpretations. i’d welcome anyone who can say which interpretation is the correct one, and can explain why.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,175987,00.html
Different interpretations. This exactly is the inherent consequence of having an intellect. Just as every individual has a unique thumb mark, no two thinking entity have exactly the same understanding of a particular subject.
Religion is not the only intellectual discipline that has this “phenomenon”. Science, arts & music, and in fact almost all aspects of intellectual pursuits exhibit different levels of this problem.
@Non-Malig
in general, interpretation issues characterize any endeavor, more or less. yup.
but islam seems to have the further tragic consequence that some of its more moderate sectors cannot reign in the other more radical elements.
this is not true for all of other fields. in science, when a segment becomes too radical, other parts of society or the field go after it to reign in the radical parts.
The effects of radicalism of Islam (or other religions for that matter) is very direct and most of the time extremely violent. Whereas, the effects of radicalism of other intellectual endeavors, say science for example, is not always so obvious so as to cause direct disturbance to societies.
Religion and science differ in one profound way. Religion is more in the domain of the metaphysical realm while science’s main domain is the physical realm. The beliefs of the different principles, theories, & laws of various sciences may be proven or demonstrated physically. This is why in science, radical ideas which deviate far from the already established laws, principles, & theories are disproved by the application or demonstration of the truthfulness of its laws, principles, & theories through experiments and other methods.
Religion on the other hand lacks that capability to demonstrate concrete proof of its held set of beliefs because “religion” is more a function of “faith” than of reason. This is what makes religious radicalism very dangerous and so hard to deal with.
“there is no central authority in interpretation, so people may interpret the book however they wish.” –GabbyD
This is not true Gabby. In Islamic educational system, there is an Islamic branch of knowledge (8 main branches and more sub-branches) called Fiqh. If I am not mistaken, one of the things talked about here is Ijtihad or legal rulings of Muslim scholars that have reached the grade of a Mujtahid. Anyone cannot easily reach this grade except through piousness and painstaking years (50 years is not enough) of scholarly undertakings. And that a Mujtahid legal exercise does not and cannot go with his own i.e. it follows the required instructional experience, set scholarly standard and procedural requisites. That is, any rulings spring forth strictly and deduced from the text of the Qur’an or existent Prophetic traditions whose context is related to a particular circumstance of the thing or concern (besetting a Muslim) ruled about.
BTW, this jurisprudential exercise only pertains to reducing, if not eradicating, any hardships that impede the observance of any worship and not on matters related to theological aspect or faith as Islam’s articles of faith are definite. Therefore, it is contextual and circumstantial; it varies according to time, space and experience. With its dynamism, it gets rich.
But there is no such a thing as different non-Malignant but vast, therefore rich interpretations. Without any intention to relate to, we can also refer to election jurisprudence. With so many electoral concerns, let alone irregularities, coming into existence during elections, it gets richer and richer. That is, election commissioners issue more and more Comelec resolutions (depending on the thickness of blood and/or money, hehehe)
“but islam seems to have the further tragic consequence that some of its more moderate sectors cannot reign in the other more radical elements.”
GabbyD,
If it’s a matter of interpretation, and as you say there is no central authority, then no one can say which interpretation is exactly correct, therefore it cannot be expected (or reasonable)of any sector of Islam to reign in another sector since each sector believes its own interpretation is correct.
Because two conflicting ideas such as whether “Killing of innocents not holy” or indeed “holy” cannot be both correct, it is easy to assume that one is sure to be wrong.
The final arbiter must be ones interpretation of what is the high moral ground. For me the high moral ground is not to kill the innocents.
If another believes otherwise then that’s another interpretation.
That is different from saying that my interpretation is correct.
In the vast universe of ideas, there can be as much interpretations as there are thinking individuals each having their own faculty of intellect. But the human mind is not only capable of different interpretations, it is also a seeker and builder of consensus.
As one thinking mind once said something like this; In every differing ideas, there are three things: one entity’s idea, the other entity’s idea, and the arbitrary base idea.
If not for the creativeness of the human mind in dealing with the different interpretations of each thinking individual, democracy would have never been established. But democracy should only be considered as a tool rather a total solution to such problem.
Correction to my typographical error.
Last sentence should read:
But democracy should only be considered as a tool rather THAN a total solution to such problem.
I beg to disagree here non-Malignant, because had it been the case then the imposition of democracy in the Middle East will perhaps mitigate somehow “sectarian violence” in there. On the other hand democracy even reinforced and abetted instead these conflicts around the world.
“Andreas Notter, one of the two Swiss hostages of the Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG), has reportedly been either wounded or killed. Reports on the ground tell of an alleged flight of the terror group from their lair in Indanan to a now undisclosed location. Allegedly, Notter was hit or killed when the ASG was assuming defensive positions. The AFP said that the group has now split into four groups, anticipating an assault.” -From the first Para. of this article
Kambyo..parang safety clause kung baga:
“If these reports are true, then, this (Hopia! tama na..no need to continue)- from the 2nd para. of same article.
Today is April 6. 2009. There was no fire fight, no hostage was ever wounded or killed. One was released.
Enough said.
Danilo, dense ako, pls. explain, heheh.
Gladly. Read my comments after Non-Malignant, I agreed with Non-Malignant’s “autopsy” on Pat’s credibility, it was written more eloquently.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49LBrMmJU4c
The writer of this particular post [Pat Mangubat] is a communication strategist.
When strategizing your message, it requires employing certain communication techniques — among such popular techniques are psychology and reverse psychology — in the hope of causing the object of the communication to act in a way the communicator intended the object to act. In short, a sort of psychological manipulation.
Not all the time this method is effective. It becomes ineffective once the target receiver of the communication discover the subtle methodology. Hard cynicism from the rest of receivers of communication (even if they are not the target ones) becomes the prize gained by the communicator for being subtly manipulative and hence every message sent (even if it is an honest one without any subtle manipulation embedded) will be treated with less importance if not ignored by the intended receivers.
Pasensya na di ko napigilan ang ugaling-gubat ko… pasensya na, taga-gubat lang.
Iba ang ang usaping gubat kasi… nawa’y maunawaan mo. leche ka samahan mo ko sa gubat! lolzzz…
Sounds like a puckmischievous spirit who is miffed by own malevolence.
Sounds like a moron. I feel sorry for him.
Enough Pat bashing. We are all humans and no one is perfect. Pat Mangubat wrote what he felt like blogging on April 2. Very brave indeed.
Hang in there Pat. Its a fee country, and you are free to express yourself. Mabait at mapagkumbaba yan si Pat. We are all friends here in FV. So enjoy the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzibA7YP7VM&feature=related
Pat,
Anything that espouses violence, brute force or that which leads to an extreme option as that how you felt about Rene Pacifico, is to my mind, loosely speaking, a form of fascist’s mood.
In any case, ideologically, might really be less than fascism. On that note, you are right since no one can introduce at FV any form of fascist regime.
I am glad to know that at other times, one Pat can agree with my views. Thank you so much.
You are most welcome.
KFR, that’s all it really is.