The National Security Adviser Norberto Gonzalez and his comrade Fr. Romeo Intengan met and proposed the establishment of a revolutionary transition government to Bishop Gaudencio Tobias and Chief Justice Reynato Puno. Is this not sedition? Shouldn’t the Palace be alarmed that the National Security Adviser is proposing the overthrow of the government?
Not according to Palace boob, Cerge Remonde. ( READ HERE)
Remonde told dzBB radio, “Well, ah, hindi kami na-alarma riyan. Medyo sanay kami riyan sa mga ganyang klaseng initiative ni Sec. Gonzales. (We are not alarmed over that. We are already used to those initiatives by Gonzales) These things he does, he does as National Security Adviser.”
Gonzalez is the national security adviser, Cerge.
Let me wipe the coffee off my nose first before I ask you, what the heck, you’re telling the public he often proposes initiatives to topple the government and this is part of his job as national security adviser? Abcerge!
And so the national security adviser is going to be made to explain, that’s all?
“The actions of Sec. Norberto Gonzales insofar as a transition council are entirely his own. He has no authority from the Cabinet or the President and therefore Sec. Gonzales lang maka-explain sa bagay na yan [therefore only Gonzales can explain his actions].”
Why is Gloria not ordering the Department of Justice to investigate the matter and to file charges against Gonzalez and Intengan if warranted? Why doesn’t she put him on leave, is he not a security threat until cleared by an investigation?
What the hell is going on? It’s okay if a call for revolution comes from within but not okay if it comes from the opposition?
Popularity: 1% [?]
mbuencamino, assuming that was has been said was said in the true context, i cannot find anything to take issue with you on this post except that while it may not constitute the crime of sedition, it may satisfy the elements of “inciting to sedition”.
Bencard,
May I add that this is not the first time Gonzalez acted in a questionable manner. Go back to 2005 when he signed the contract with Venable Inc without authority from Mrs. Arroyo. Look at the terms of that contract. It will make you want to strangle Gonzalez.
If a common tao like me and you advocates for a Revolutionary
Government. She or he is abducted and tortured. If those in power
advocates for Revolutionary Government to grab power and legitimize
their SEDITION. It is okay. Are these people above the law ?
They are already commiting subversion of the government. No one is
arresting them or even jailing them. Is this the government we have ?
High Ranking officials violating the law with impunity ?
In the 21st century, we still have a “Seditious Jesuit”!?!?! If this were Tudor England,Our Glorious Queen should do justice to her office and like Elizabeth I, have the seditious Jesuit racked, the seditious bishop burned at the stake and the seditious minister have his head beheaded by an apprentice executioner, ala Thomas Cromwell!
And the Palace boob kept at the Tower until he rots!
God Save our gracious Queen! (until 12 noon of June 30, 2010 of course)!
When someone works at a high level in government, he has no “private” views when his words are uttered publicly. It is not up to the People to parse his language. There are only two ways to look at Gonzales’ statement: he is either highly incompetent or highly irresponsible. There can be no rationalizations otherwise. And, of course, the President is defined by her actions, too . . .
Joe
If a new constitution is created in 4 months that satisfies the altruistic, professional, career and other objectives of the leadership from the Opposition Parties, from the Current Government, the Legal Scholars, the anti-politics pro-Special-Niche Churches,
the pro-Country Military Leaders and the economic-oriented business and military leaders and the thing
violateddispensed with is the requirementfor a s—l—o—w—–m—o—t—i—o—n constitutional convention, won’t it be a scene of kumbaya hunky-dory okay-na-naman We-have-made-a-breakthrough-FOR-THE-GREATER-GOOD at the birth of a new constitution?
It is like having a Constitutional Convention, except fast-tracked; it is like surging the gates except with no need for hakot because the gates were wide-open BUT only a select group of cars and SUV’s were allowed in.
UP n grad,
Dream on . . .
A sterling writer could draft a great constitution in a week, someone with the profound vision and craftsmanship of a Thomas Jefferson. The document would probably be reasonably short, a codification of the profound laws of the land, the freedoms and the responsibilities, timeless in their depth of meaning. Writing the layers of laws and interpretations flowing from that document would take eternity, outside the constitution.
I fear that the unique Filipino style of going for the nits rather than the grits is unlikely to produce such profundity, in four months or four years.
Joe
Ahhhh, but JoeAmerica: You are already saying it. Such a constitution can be written! Good writers and editors are a dime a dozen (maybe more than a dime — ‘dem writers may have to be paid with a Hamilton or a Grant or a Franklin even, but well within reason).
If you side-step this “… the PROCESS needs a convention of tens of hundreds of delegates”, then a new constitution CAN be written quite efficiently. It is not the crafting of the document that is the difficult part, the action is in the deal-making and politicking all in “…search for The-Greater-Good” and
.
Don’t you get the perception in your few years in Pinas that the Filipinos as people and culture are more Macchiavellian than purists? Macchiavellian, especially the leadership politicians and civil society both? Taking shortcuts okay, rigorous dotting-i’s/crossing t’s can be dispensed with as long as in the end, their interests (altruistic as well as career and economic) are bettered.
Violating a paragraph here or there of an operational constitution … acceptable ? For Filipinos of course it is. “PeoplePower-the-brand”, remember? Acceptable, if presented to be an action needed
now, joe, you are again at par with djb who insists that the law and the constitution are just matters of grammar. ahh, the classic layman’s attitude. fortunately, there are only a few of them, otherwise, heaven help us.
UP n,
Yes, you are correct. Properly motivated, people here can be highly efficient and productive. Amazingly so . . .
Joe
Side-topic: GMA meeting with Pres Obama. Now this is an agreement that will be great is Pinas were to receive:
UP n,
probably would have been a better chance if the Philippines had remained engaged in Iraq, too . . .
Joe
I believe that GMA miscalculated. The political price to her (for a beheaded Angelo delos Reyes) would be months of discomfort from Gabriela and Bayan marches to this or to that, but only for 15 months or even much less.
you got that right, joe. just like the current u.s. president who, after talking from one side of his mouth that he had no knowledge of the facts, he called the cambridged police “stupid” for arresting his black professor (gates) friend for alleged “disorderly conduct”. yet, he won’t apologize for his “mistake”. what arrogance.
to bencard : Agree — out of line for Obama to blithely use “stupid” to describe the Cambridge police actions. Obama should have had the cool-headedness to recognize that emotions were getting fanned. Obama should have recognized STATE RIGHTS and his/Obama’s expectations that the Massachusetts authorities will be able to sort out facts from emotions surrounding the arrest of his friend Professor Gates.
Bencard, UP n,
Mr. Obama did own up to his mistake, and is taking steps to smooth things out. As for apology, I think it would make him a weaker president to run about begging forgiveness for every mistaken word. To judge him as “arrogant” for how he has handled the matter is a little wild, and reflects more on the critic than Obama.
Joe
joe, you can defend him all you want but indications abound that the true character of the man is fast working its way to the surface. it appears his presidency is unraveling, thanks to his radical background and relative inexperience in the workings of government. while he obviously has no problem apologizing to other countries for the “mistakes” of america, he seems unable to be contrite for his own indiscretions. while, as a candidate, he preached racial/ethnic understanding and harmony, he now shows that he is just another “them vs. us” kind of agitator. indeed, america will never be the same, and i fear for the coming generations.
Bencard,
Yes, America has been changed for the better already, for having the wisdom and courage to choose an intelligent, dignified BLACK man as president. The racists will remain forever, but there are fewer of them . . .
The issue is racial profiling by the police, something Mr. Obama has worked on legislatively, and something he has a different perspective on than you might have because he is black and you are not. Rather than try to understand the black man’s reality, you draw the racial line in the sand and declare it wrong.
Here is an excerpt from Associated Press, July 25.
————
After two days of wall-to-wall media coverage, Obama placed conciliatory calls Friday to Gates and the arresting officer, and he popped into the White House press area. He said he hoped the episode “ends up being what’s called a ‘teachable moment,’ where all of us, instead of pumping up the volume, spend a little more time listening to each other and try to focus on how we can generally improve relations between police officers and minority communities.”
Obama’s actions will probably help that cause, and over time, he will reshape other parts of America’s racial fabric, said Ferrel Guillory, director of the Program on Public Life at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
. . .
Rep. Elijah Cummings, a Democrat from Baltimore, agrees.
“Things are getting better,” said Cummings, 58, who as a young lawyer was often the only black professional in the courtroom. “But we’ve still got a long ways to go.”
Nearly all his black associates think Gates was a victim of racial profiling, Cummings said, while 70 percent of his white friends do not. “We look at these problems of race out of our own glasses,” he said, “and they are based on our experiences.”
———-
I regret to inform you that there are two kinds of people, those who seek understanding and those who seek to justify themselves, for they have not the courage, dignity or intelligence to find truths outside themselves. You are the latter.
Joe
Again, the “there are only two vowels in the English language” fallacy rears its head. Very tempting, that one, and very convenient to use to throttle an argument during moments of passionate argumentation.
UP n,
Yes, throttling in the heat of passion, so pull out all the conniving linguistic stops.
I have recently come to consider that some attorneys spend a career setting aside the notion of right and wrong in their advocacy of “legal positions”. A few of them probably grow amoral with age, the lifetime of gamesmanship getting the better of their sense of impartiality. You can identify them readily because they talk out of both sides of their mouth, blow a lot of smoke, and speak in declarative sentences . . .
Not that I would ever do that, of course . . .speak in declaratives . . .
Anyway, your observation today gave me a good belly laugh.
There are, of course, two ways to get a good belly, an overabundance of San Mig and sitting at the computer all day . . .
Joe
Tagay!!! Enjoy Pinas…. great country.
no sense having a “tit for tat” discussion with you, joe. but you will be well-advised to watch events in our good u.s. of a unfold with your eyes wide open. you may not want to come back to your own ever again despite your constant whining about the philippines, its government and its people.
Bencard,
Lest readers take away the wrong impression, I defend the Philippines (I am a resident preservationist, and know its wonders and beauty; I’m learning its rich history) and I defend the people (the fishermen, tricycle drivers, construction workers, jeepney drivers, and other people being disadvantaged by the greedy entrenched such as yourself, many of whom are in government). I DO take the government to task for corruption, wealth of nonsense, and policies that are 180 degrees of separation from constructive, job-creating undertakings. In that effort I am pleased to know I am joined by a whole lotta right-thinking Filipinos.
Obama is a good man and will be a great president. My stocks are up 53 percent since he took over from that other guy, the nervous little twirp who acted a lot like Cheney’s puppet.
Joe
Bencard,
Norberto Gonzalez has cabinet rank. His title is Secretary. He is a member of the security cluster of the cabinet and participates in their meetings. (As you know the cabinet is clustered around security, economy, etc. so that cabinet members do not have to participate in meetings not related directly to the area of responsibility.
still, the president can heed or ignore his advice. how do we know he was not taken to task for such a dumb suggestion, albeit not publicly, and without the shouting “t.v. patrol”, the “philippine daily tsismis”, and other purveyors of sensationalism getting involved?
Of course GMA can heed or not heed the advise of every member of her official family.
I cannot follow you on this matter of privatizing what Gonzalez had done- “how do we know he was not taken to task for such a dumb suggestion”
Bencard,
If he had brought it up with her privately that’s between him and her.
However, Gonzalez and Intangan have approached others, notably Bishop Gaudencio Tobias and CJ Reynato Puno. That changes the nature of the thing. They are now inviting others to join them in overthrowing not just a sitting president but the Constitution! That as you said is inciting to sedition.
That brings the whole thing into the public arena and it cannot be dealt with privately anymore, not if GMA lives by her oath to uphold the Constitution.
A full investigation is warranted. Preventive suspension also, while the investigation is going on.
manuel, take a cue from philmanila below. if public investigation and prosecution, i.e., trial by publicity, is to be carried out, why stop with gonzales and intengan? why not include, e.g., bishops cruz, tobias, the “running” priest reyes, old men guingona and abat, the b& w partisans, among countless others?
“Why is Gloria not ordering the Department of Justice to investigate the matter and to file charges against Gonzalez and Intengan if warranted?”
Yeah, why not? But there have been so many of these supposedly sinister plans like coups d’ etat to the th, “coup me”, No-El, de-estabs, PMA Batch 1978, etc. going by such exotic names God-Save-the-Queen, Hyatt 10, August Moon, etc. people are just tired. Tama na, tapusin na lang!
Will it still pay to Discover?
PhilManila and Bencard,
Gonzalez is the National Security Adviser. Someone in that position inciting to sedition surely demands immediate attention. And you know as well as I do that the threat presented by someone in such a sensitive position is different than the threat coming from all those groups and individuals you mentioned.
Still, if overthrow of the Constitution is what they are calling for not just the toppling of the president which is what happened in the case of Erap, then they should be investogated and, if warranted, charged with inciting to sedition.
Suppose Gonzalez were the AFP chief, would you still look at it as simply another sinister plan?
You see it’s the sensitive position that makes Gonzalez different from the other plotters you mentioned.
Presumably Gonzales uttered or signed an oath of office, too, neh? Wonder what it said . . .
Joe
in matters of criminal prosecution, there is such a thing as prosecutorial discretion. it’s the prosecutor’s call whether or not there’s need to investigate to find probable cause, or to indict and he cannot be second-guessed when it comes to that. pgma may be the chief law enforcer but she is not a prosecutor or a judge, even though the chief prosecutor (the justice secretary) works under her. she is not even a lawyer and does not pretend to be one, so she defers to the experts. so why blame her?
as gabbyd suggests below, it could just have been an off-the-cuff conversation/discussion picked up by some roving “journalist” with radar ears and x-ray vision on the lookout for some “scoop” or possible scandal. a prosecutor worth his salt would touch something like that with a ten-foot pole.
Bencard,
“she defers to the experts. so why blame her?”
In the case of a PDEA drug bust, the one involving the Alabang Boys, Gloria over-ruled the special prosecutor whose decision was upheld by then justice secretary Raul Gonzalez. She ordered the DOJ to reverse the dismissal and to prosecute the boys. GMA exercised her prerogative as chief law enforcer.
Inciting to sedition is a serious crime. Why won’t you even grant that GMA, above all, should order a thorough investigation? Fer crissakes, it’s her National Security Adviser!
I am not after GMA. I want Norberto Gonzalez and Romeo Intengan investigated! Aren’t you in the least bit concerned that people holding sensitive posts in government could be undermining our democratic way of life?
I also think CJ Puno should be investigated.
Why did he keep quite about his meeting with Gonzalez and Intengan? Puno only admitted that a meeting took place after Intengan revealed it to newspapers. Had Intengan kept his mouth shut, would Puno have stayed mum?
So you have the Chief Justice of the land and the National Security Adviser discussing a revolutionary transition government. Intengan who was present at the meeting said Puno seemed receptive, but Puno denied this. He was offered a position in the junta but he says he declined. Now is that still a private matter?
in the case of the alabang boys, pogma obviously made a political decision to assuage the rampaging crowds looking for blood. afterall, like i said, she is a politician, not a lawyer. but a good prosecutor knows when to prosecute a case and win a judicial verdict. prosecuting a glaringly losing case is not only a waste of public funds and resources, it also smacks of arbitrariness. he cannot afford to always succumb to public clamor, “crucify him, crucify him”.
if its just a discussion? is it sedition?
Discussion as sedition …. Nope. Discussing Oakwood Mutiny and calling Trillanes a hero of this sector or that group of Pinoys-in-Pinas …. not sedition.
Now, Trillanes and fellow soldiers being the Oakwood mutineers …. that is treason in its true colors.
And had GMA/Mike-Arroyo and the generals and colonels in their group been unsuccessful in the surge-the-gates against Erap…. being losers in an honest-to-goodness putsch execution would incur the judgment of treason/sedition.
Read the statement of Puno’s spokesman.
@MB
i read ur post and your link.
i think the key word is “FEEDBACK”. when one asks for feedback, it may imply that its already its already in motion. (altho it doesnt necessarily mean so)
i wonder where the word feedback comes from — it comes from somewhere, as its in quotes. and i wonder if it means what they think it means.
ding gagelonia, sorry but i wouldn’t go that far. in the first place, treason is a war crime, and unless the current conflict with cpp/npa/milf/asg/jl is “war” in the legal sense, there can be no crime of treason. in the second place, i’m not sure if gonzales, as presidential adviser, has a cabinet rank that could make him “alter ego” of the president. i believe his primary function, as his title implies, is to ADVISE the president and the latter can take that advice or ignore it.