I was gonna comment on Patricio’s last blog entry “Evolution of contempt…” and took a bit of time to go through some of the history behind the views he expressed there; specifically the high priest of smokes‘s (HPS’s) blog article “Blasting Voices” which Ding — being the reporter that he is — reported on FV here.
Apparently, it was what HPS said here that ruffled some (pardon the pun) cocky feathers:
Come November, we will get what we want and people will just follow us. These ordinary people do not have the strength nor the will to oppose us. We know it from experience and from surveys. If the likes of the Black and White Movement and those minions of this dreamer named Mar Roxas think they can muster enough numbers to oust Madame from power, they’re dreaming.
To which the response was voluminous but, in my opinion, rather underwhelming given the supposed illustrious nature of the characters who inhabit FV. Though Danilo gushed that “what an achievement when FV becomes a choir” (referring to how some FV authors have united against HPS) I expressed to the contrary in an earlier and admittedly under-researched comment in Ding’s post my initial observation that one “[...] thing HPS managed to achieve here is galvanise FV authors into some kind of mob”. This harks back to my own experience being an outsider in Ellenville, a hotbed of inbred thinking where my own views were regarded with quaint outrage by Ellen’s like-minded disciples.
Patricio summarised their mob’s charter with this interesting comment on his own post:
we don’t hate highpriest. we just want to defeat his ideas. because that’s the most harmful.
First stop in my journey of understanding was the comments section of the FV community on Ding’s report. Across the first five comments one could find nothing that directly addressed the message. Instead we have the following cherry-picked gems:
:D High Priest is the mole on our funny bone.
Like most fascists, his bark is worse than his bite.
I can’t wait for more of his ululations. Awoooooh!
:D Let’s see how this plays out and how far this supposed ‘High Priest’ can go before he/she is unmasked or blown out of the water.
:D We should rejoice when we find bloggers either worth emulating or “blowing out of the water.” Both kinds worth spending any time on are actually few and far between, as the sparseness of the A-List proves.
The third and last one kind of spelt out a rationale behind giving HPS the time of day given that the commenter made the following comment on HPS’s blog itself:
Hmmm…another dark, juvenile blog that won’t last but a few weeks for lack of moral stamina. You’re outta ideas already, aren’t you?
Kinda reminds me of that scene in Schindler’s List where the evil Nazi commander Amon Goeth found himself in the excrutiating situation of coming to terms with the lust he felt for a young Jewish girl given his indoctrinated hatred for Jews.
Had (a) Cocoy not provided a break in the Ellen-esque exchange of cyber high-fives between Ding and DJB with the sanity check: “Sometimes the bad guys can co-opt a really good idea. Cha-cha per se isn’t evil. I really think this republic needs to take a hard look at itself[...]“, (b)Danilo not reminded us that we “don’t have the monopoly of excellent and time-tested views, others [do] too”, and (c) HPS himself not jumped in to say “If FV is what it tells the people it is, that it is a site that welcomes dissent, then, it’s time to prove it”, the mob mentality would have gone on straight across several more comments riddled with ad hominems and speculation on personal circumstances, notably:
i don’t know, but i have a gut feeling this highpriest is not what he says he is but is actually an anti-gma having some laughs while pulling your leg
We can’t help the juvenile delinquents very much, except by example
Tell us something new. Give us something clever. Be creative and not just pusillanimous. I know anonymity is a comfortable hiding hole for cowards and scoundrels, but I doubt you are a soundrel…
Will have to think about that while I puke.
Atenista pala si highpriest. That explains a lot.
BTW, I’ve found out the true identity of you know who. Abangan.
To our credit, one of us — HPS’s ironic namesake, smoke — did the right thing and afforded HPS a more dignified and rigourously-crafted, well-thought-out response. Ironically in smoke’s response comes a bit more clarity around what merit actually lies in HPS’s assertions, specifically to do with what she says here:
This means that while we may have vested an elected official with the power to act on our behalf, we are not estopped from later on disowning his actions by voting him out of office. We don’t have to trust our elected officials forever; the most these people can expect is that we give them the benefit of the doubt – or come to think of it, that we should give OURSELVES the benefit of the doubt that we didn’t choose the wrong person.
Kind of a circular argument if you ask me. It reads like a monumental struggle to come to terms with the reality that, in a democracy, we elect officials to represent our interests, then trust that they do the right thing while in office. There is that all-too-familiar fixation on the concept that “the power to select a President [...] should always be reserved to the people” under our system of government. Meanwhile a little detail was glossed over in this tirade — that the extension of GMA’s tenure in power will be facilitated by an exercise to amend the Constitution using legal means.
Guess what, folks:
This exercise will be executed using due legitimate process and either approved or rejected by duly elected representatives under our current system of government.
Lest we forget, Gloria won back her right to govern legitimately as a previous bid to impeach her was dismissed in the hands of our duly-elected representatives in September of 2005. Deal with it. That’s what “democracy” is.
It’s ironic what DJB says in this comment:
Let’s everyone remember the motto for FV:
ANG PIKON, TALO!
On second thought, it is quite spot on. In a frenzy of outrage directed against the honourable Congressmen who junked the impeachment bid, a “concerned citizen” commented:
“MAJORITY RULES! who’s the majority you think ha? those trapos in congress who murdered the impeachment? no no my dear. it’s the PEOPLE who elected and put these congressmen in position.”
(NB: capitalisation and grammatical errors quoted as is).
After which in a brilliant burst of insight I wrote:
In a country peppered by souls still heady and giddy about Fiesta Revolutions of past, the rallying cry in response to an impeachment bid against President Gloria Arroyo that catastrophically failed to pass Congress on 06 Sep 2005 was once again — you guessed it — FIESTA REVOLUTION! Led by no less than Madame Ex-President, former Time Woman of the Year, and Ms 1986 “Revolution” herself — Ms Corazon Aquino, what may now be billed Edsa IV (or Commonwealth Avenue I, as the case may be), promised to be another spectacle of sorts. This time there was no particular heir-to-the-throne around which the fete was organised.
Implying that:
[...] in effect, Filipinos would have not accepted their duly constituted institutions and duly elected officials as the official authorities on the “Truth” yet would have easily relied on a street mob in yet another Fiesta Revolution to dictate and uphold said “Truth”. This is tantamount to arbitrarily voiding Congress and allowing street mobs to call the shots from hereon.
Talo nga ang pikon.
Interestingly enough, since 2005 there were a couple more instances where an attempt to do more street “revolutions” fizzled out — most spectacularly the much-touted “Interfaith Rally” organised around the the now chump-like Jun Lozada where among other circus acts we saw Cory Aquino and Erap sharing a stage. As Robin would have been apt to say, holy freakshow, Batman!.
This brings us to that other perceived slight on our sensibilities as a people; that HPS implies that “the governed are to be led like sheep by the governors”.
But then step back and regard the big picture — the many instances of our readyiness to hit the streets in lockstep with “outrage” that, upon careful examination, was engineered and executed by politicians and oligarchs themselves in line with their higher personal agendas. Though we fancy these demonstrations of outrage on Manila’s streets as the “voice” or “will” of “the people”, there is something to be said about how much actual thinking goes into the Average Pinoy Schmoe’s decision to join a rally — specially considering that ours is a society where discussion topics — droll and unintelligent, focused on the trivial or the irrelevant as they are — favour personalities and events rather than ideas.
Pinoys may not come across on the surface as docile sheep, but the way we move and the mentality that underpins said movement is not too different from the dynamics of how a flock of sheep behave.
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Wow Benign0, you sure are the number one fan of the lint in your navel.
So benny, what are you suggesting? To prevent the appearance of a ‘lynching mob’ against an unpopular idea, the FV bloggers should instead appoint a designated hitter? How are they going to do that? Via an election? Im sure you feel in HP a kindred spirit, seeing that, as youve pointed out, youve been so ostracized over at Ellen’s, but are you actually advocating that FV bloggers such as yourself should conduct themselves with proper decorum? C’mon, man. It’s not only the advocates of unpopular views who get to play asshole. Why should you guys have all the fun?
Besides, the FV bloggers have welcomed HP and are waiting for him to defend his ideas on fascism and oligarchic rule. I for one am looking forward to it. Who knows? If it worked for Ancient Greece and Rome, maybe it’ll work here too.
Regarding your “brilliant bursts of insight”–I hope we shall be enjoying them for a long time to come. Hilarity is good for the soul (just ask Sarah Palin!) Unlike of course, High Priest, (whom I still think doesn’t have the moral or mental stamina to be our Resident Fascist at FV though I would welcome it), you at least can give as much (if not more) than you can take.
That of course is the true meaning of “Ang Pikon Ay Talo.”
But I think we must not forget that FV is an experiment in New Media. There is no editor and we are dedicated to the concept of the wisdom of the crowd, which can definitely get rowdy, — not the dainty etiquette of a soiree in Assumption Convent.
High Priest has gotten his jollies, as many provocateurs do, from behind a veil of anonymity, with braggadocio and tripe, insulting strangers he has never read before, barging into their ruminations and waving his Brown Shirt and bobbing his forehead with the Palace cattle brand, up and down. You call him a Patriot for defending an F-Minus president (SWS again!). I call him a Coward and Fascist–both appelations I wager he will prove to be accurate.
Let’s wait and see what he does. I’d love to be proved wrong on this one.
DJB, Jeg, Marck, and the rest of the ‘mob’
It is with a note of sadness, and I am not gloating lest I be castigated, as your “reporter” here at FV (I won’t cite other data re myself lest I be slammed for “credentialism”))that the so-called high priest has beaten a retreat, or as Patricio tells me, “napagalitan yata.”
He is now distancing Malacanang from his grand claims. Abangan.
BTW, I believe the point in my post was the revelation of a 10-year term extension plan right?
oh crap. i was even hoping that the high priest of smokes gets invited to contribute.
damn. this sucks.
Uh, Ding: I was just asking questions. :)
although i did call GMA a fascist on my own blog last night.
i was also just asking him what he thinks. like i said before, crucible of debate. OK, maybe it was overkill in retrospect… maybe we should be a bit more circumspect in how we treat people regardless of what opinions they hold. just because you support GMA – no matter how lame-duck your argument may be – that doesn’t mean that you’re automatically anti-anything.
benefit of the doubt, i guess.
He’s invited as far as I am concerned. But I think as we will discover, lots of opinionated people don’t have what it takes to be a writer (that’s what we old fashioned people still like to call bloggers) who is immediately and unavoidably exposed to the reaction of his audience. As far as I can tell, HP is all braggadocio and giddy over the idea that no one knows who he is. It’s a hohum troll’s game.
Now I’ve always believed that the true measure of a man can be seen in what he is willing to do when he thinks he won’t be found out, which is the comfort zone that anonymity provides. In that sense anonymity is a valid and legitimate state to be in: it’s self-discovery, really. Until of course, one starts insulting other people and dropping hints about WHO we are, who we know and how important or superior we might be in real life.
With that in mind, I predict we shall be able to take a full measure of Mr. High Priest, a calibration mark if you will, the next time he shows up. IF he shows up.
Awwwwww. That’s too bad. And to be ‘napagalitan’ only because he told the truth about the Palace’s real cha-cha agenda sucks.
Marck,
I was actually amazed that when you posted the giant french fried thingy photo and your stream of thought post no one seemed to notice your oblique nudge at the so-called high priest’. Too bad my daughter only just turned 16. You don’t snatch cradles do you? :)
Jeg, there are ways of injecting fun into a proper discussion without being ad hoministic and stooping to Tito-Vic-and-Joey humour.
One of these ways is through the use of something called wit.
I have duly noted your earlier comment in the other thread which you now re-iterate where you said:
Which is part of what I propose that maybe democracy simply doesn’t work in a society whose cultural underpinnings are of a nature that sits outside of the philosophical framework that spawned this form of government.
Even better, I’ve alread pit into proper context this whole debate around whether democracy actually works for our pathetic lot or whether a “benevolent dictator” is what we need (or, more appropriately, deserve):
(Click here to see the full article in from which the above excerpt was taken.)
Recall also my past blog entry Who cares if Gloria is president after 2010? where I issued this brilliant challenge:
It’s already one thing that the way we respond to someone who spells out a scenario where GMA is in power for 10 more years is, to say the least, underwhelming, and it’s another to regard the the real question of whether another 10 years of a GMA presidency really matters given our world-class ability to muddle along in mediocrity regardless of who is sitting in Malacanang.
I don’t know why you consider my comment “Atenista pala si highpriest. That explains a lot.” as ad-hominem or speculation. First of all, it’s not speculation since he admitted to be an Atenean. Secondly, it is not ad hominem as i was bringing out the fact that Ateneans tend to be elitists and amoral when it comes to their perceived inferiors. I already have three (or four) specimens of the type and that’s not counting the public figures in government, only those in the blogosphere. The reason i bring this out is that i believe that there is something seriously wrong with the Jesuit way of educating people. As they say, by their fruits, you will know them.
@Ding, told ya
Well, benny, as a matter of principle, there is something wrong with having GMA govern past 2010 because of the question of her legitimacy to be there since 2004. The disaster would be in those intangibles, those moral and philosophical things that undergird a society. Things like justice and freedom and rights and the sovereign will of the people, for instance. (Do you deny the existence of principles, by the way? Or are you one of those who think theyre a silly superstition? For some people, law is enough, order is enough.)
But I dont have anything against anyone holding office for longer than a legal time limit. In fact, in MLQ3′s blog, Ive mentioned that the power of the people isnt in voting people in — that process is too much under the control of the politicians — the power of the people is in kicking people out, for that power is driven by principles. GMA isnt one who deserves to stay beyond 2010. If she does, she’ll get kicked out. If she isnt, then we as a society have failed; it means we dererve her.
As for your assertion that we may not be ready for democracy, that could be true, for Filipinos are more than willing to abdicate their sovereignty to an elite class, especially to the political elite. But be that as it may, democracy remains a goal for us. Democracy is a principle, that word again, that undergirds our aspirations.
And finally:
Doesnt negate the fact that ad hominems and Tito-Vic-and-Joey arent fun. I think the people here dont mind the trash talk (what you call ad hominems) if you actually have something to say. Larry Bird was a notorious trash talker but if that’s all he did, he won’t be counted as one of basketball’s best. But wit is fine, too, benny. You should give it a try.
SOLIPSISM. That’s what your “brilliant” problem seems to be, Benny. It’s getting booorrrringg.
Doesnt negate the fact that ad hominems and Tito-Vic-and-Joey arent fun.
I meant “Doesnt negate the fact that ad hominems and Tito-Vic-and-Joey ARE fun.” Sorry.
Hi people,
I think you’re beating a nearly dead man. I’m reading his post today and it seems that he’s being “prevailed by people” whom he did’nt specify. I think Ding is right–this person seems to be an assistant of the government’s legal department.
In this blog site, he cites the official line which I read in the Inquirer about the xmas truce extended by Gloria to the opposition. That’s why I alerted Ding that there’s a new post and he seems to be reconciliatory. Anyway, reconciliatory or not, as what DJB and all the rest of the guys here said, we welcome debate and the distillation of ideas–high priest or no high priest.
DJB, ad hominem argumentum
And by the way, I didn’t get through university, and for that matter through any exercise worth pursuing, purely reading exciting stuff, dude.
You want fun and exciting? Then maybe just spend your days logged on to YouTube instead. :D
benign0,
Errr, little correction dude, it’s argumentum ad hominem, not the other way ;)
Jon, Latin doesnt care too much about word order.
ad hominem argumentum
argumentum ad hominem
ad argumentum hominem
hominem ad argumentum
mean basically the same thing (with very subtle differences, not too important to definition of ‘attack against the person’). ;-)
I don’t think it’s ad hominem to call another person’s arguments solipsistic, is it? But then again you’ve just called us all cocky, with feathers that get ruffled by high priests. Then you add that we are mindless sheep along with the Filipino people who don’t know how to think, all the while praising and quoting your OWN brilliant gems of thought.
Argumentum ad solipsum!
Mr Benigno,
Thank you for understanding where I’m coming from. Like Bencard, I’ve been accused of being a fascist, even called one of the fascist in barongs by Mr. Patricio. It’s good to know that there’s someone here who really knows what democracy really means and that is–giving someone the right to express what he believes in, though repulsive to many.
I’m sure everybody agrees with me that giving a measure of praise to PGMA is in order since she brought economic and political stability in this country. I admire her not because of my current position. Among the so-called leaders of this country, she’s the only one with a vision. The rest, they just themselves to mind. And their thoughts are murky, sadistic and egoistic power trips.
These writers, Jeg, etal. all make fun of me. Yet, all these comments prove just one thing—we are all fascists, even these “esteemed” writers of FV. We are fascists in one way or another. We all are just in different forms.
You may want to disprove this, but, look at how these people try to besmirch me with all these ad hominem attacks. Surely, I’ve learned from my esteemed rector that those who do so lacks the mental stamina to engage in learned debate. And these attacks are excellent evidence of my earlier premise–all these so-called political writers are fascists in civilian clothes.
Fascism hides in the love of democracy and the extreme view of defending it—even beyond logic and the realm of reasoning.
we all have our own biases and to “blast one” from the other is a right enjoyed only by a few who have the mental stamina to last. That’s the reason why I became a smoker and a beer drinker. Those of you who don’t smoke and drink, pity you. You lack the “neurons” to stay awake while I all blast you to kingdom come.
Much better High Priest. You’re actually using some strangely familiar vocabulary. But yeah, it’s okay to try and “give a measure of praise to GMA” which isn’t what got you called a fascist, but rather, your claims of a plan to extend her term–whether legally or illegally does not matter to those who are truly sick and tired of her and are still searching for her purported vision.
But you must not take nor give the word “fascist” lightly and accuse bloggers who don’t hold office in the Solicitor General’s office (or the unconstitutional Malacanang chapel), of being fascists. Not when our taste and standards for Presidents and presidentiables are actually much, much higher than yours.
Those of us who still remember what Marcos’s smiling dictatorship was really like, ought to react violently to any glimmering of that self-same idea.
“Never Again!” is not an empty slogan, but a threat and a promise to extirpate those who would cavalierly dick with our God-given rights and freedoms.
It is an infernal insult by the way, to state that only GMA has a vision for the country. That’s what paves the way to dictatorship. The only element that Opus Dei has to add once an autocrat like GMA comes to believe that, is to convince her of Mussolini’s dictum: “The reality is, men are tired of liberty.”
GMA has lied, stolen, cheated and worse of all NOT LED the people, not inspired them save to exasperation or even hatred. She is not “beloved” after all these years, and whatever vision she has is hardly shared by anyone but her sycophants.
Have you ever heard of a truly charitable and empathetic person, who after hoisting the burdens of the presidency with honesty and humility, would then insist that she is God’s choice and the only one who can carry on the task. At the very least it means she has not prepared successors or given the spark of just ambition to others. Rather she has squelched it. She’s a moral pygmy, a female version of the “small man syndrome” that Hitler actually suffered from. It may all be Cong Dadong’s fault for so chauvinistically preferring and doting upon that mysterious son of his, Buboy, who was dark and sedate but flawed in some yet unknown way, to the ball of anger and ambition that was his daughter. (Has she ever actually cussed you out in Tagalog, yet? No? Well, just you wait!)
That is why I’ve called her a tumor on my funny bone.
but who cares about your funnybone, djb? your rabid hatred is yours and your like-minded allies alone. your “judgment” and psychoanalysis of gma is apparently not shared by a legally controlling plurality of all filipinos. keep your opinion to yourself and try not to speak for the “people” as you and your kind are in the habit of doing.
It’s a habit of freedom Bencard, which we share with you, if only reluctantly and unfortunately. We should hate evil and wrong doing, no? That’s what I learned from reading the King James Bible. I won’t keep my opinion to myself just because you say so. Why should I? You don’t even live in the Philippines do you? As for my funny bone, it’s my own and I’m proud of the marrow and genes in it. You can live the mirthless life, but bitterness and rancor will be your ugly wife.
I know I’m just 23, but can we just please stop calling each other “fascists” and talk about the issues and start being voices for issues and causes, you know? It’s starting to feel a bit old; what are we picking at him for? He’s just one guy! This is a blog where we’re supposed to debate and to talk and to WRITE, not to be schoolyard bullies!
I’m sorry guys, but with all due respect, sheesh!
HP: Hey, wanna drink? :) You seem like an interesting fellow to share beers with. I sometimes drink out in front of Ateneo, Chiggy’s. I think I have more than enough neurons to put up with your… how do you put this… blasting. I think I can. :D
At the very least, let’s stop this random name-calling and catchphrase-mongering and let’s settle this through bottles, if necessary.
Marocharim,
23 and tired already? Okay I’ll buy the first round. But most of these guys can’t even show up, can they?
djb,
this is not a popularity contest. governance is serious business. what vision aside from PGMA that this country has? At least we tried to give flesh and bones to that vision. And look at the economic numbers. You’ll see how we were able to bring forth prosperity to many.
about this purported plan–it’s not a plan. It’s a desire. A desire, no, a longing for continuity. Again, let me reiterate that all these are just my personal opinions.
What I’m saying all along is the perpetuation of stability. When PGMA came to Malacanang, it was in utter disarray. Eight years after, we have a stable economy and a contented people. What do you people want? You want more of this stability, right? Me as well.
As i blogged before, I have good reason to believe that the GDP figures have been overstated because the growth final energy consumption does not reflect such increase in per capita GDP. It’s another case of smoke and mirrors.
mr cvj,
i’m no expert in economics. that’s why I became a lawyer. But, if you’ll try to open your eyes a little bit more, you’ll see that people are not really buying these hate-GMA stuff simply because they’re fully satisfied with what she’s doing. I don’t want to write mumbo-jumbo here, but, that’s reality. And, protest whatever you want, rant wherever you will, but you’ll just find people curious of what you’re doing and act and simply say, you’re crazy.
Our economic adviser Joey Salceda would tell you straight that we have an economy better than the rest of our ASEAN neighbors. We have growth. How can you possibly say that “its another case of smoke and mirrors” when even the ADB and the WB said we’re doing a great job.
Let’s cut all these negativity and focus on the task ahead–continue the great and good policies of this administration and we can all sleep soundly at night. I have a daughter who’s now in high school. I could confidently tell her that I’m right with my continued support for PGMA. She can tell me that those nuns at her school thinks otherwise, but to hell with them.
They don’t know any better. They think like djb thinks–they think that governance is like governing heaven, hahaha! That’s my funny bone.
highpriest, even your economic advisers cannot window dress everything. In an expanding economy, per capita energy consumption normally increases. That has been the case with the expansions during Cory Aquino and FVR’s time. Not so with GMA. Just as the economy was reported to be increasing, per capita energy consumption was actually decreasing. You have to explain that with more than your usual rhetoric.
well, cvj, honestly, I need to research on that one. That’s not my cup of tea. I may have to puff some cigarettes to understand it. I may have to get back to you on this.
let me correct you though–I don’t have “economic advisers”. In fact, I don’t deal with economic figures. You need to ask the NEDA. But, thanks for pointing this out. I may need to ask one of my staff in the murning.
HP,
One of my firmest beliefs about democracy is this: no matter how good or how bad a leader is, their time in office is strictly limited by the Law, which itself is but a spring that cannot rise above its source: the sovereign people. That is were the Rule of Law actually gets its virtue.
There is great wisdom in this precept of temporary hold on power too, derived from the adage that absolute power corrupts absolutely.
As a lawyer you cannot have failed to note that a major impetus of the 1987 constitution was the prevention of another Marcos. Unfortunately for us, GMA has been hard at work in the government all these years. She undertands it about as well as Marcos did.
The argument you advance for continuity was also advanced (and this really gives me the willies now, realizing it!) by Da Apo almost exactly a year and half also before his second term was to end. For continuity, order, prosperity, he declared martial law. Sound familiar?
He too was on a roll, being the first post war president to be re-elected.
BTW, how well DO you know GMA, in your estimation? What makes her immune to the corruption of absolute power that you would argue with your daughter about it? Or the nuns that raised GMA and know her kind only too well? Too well!
And don’t look now, here comes Loren, her classmate at the convent, eager to take up where GMA left off in Mindanao–where the flies are feasting on dead bodies because GMA wants continuity–she’s a Muslim princess wouldn’t you know?
djb,
to answer you, i don’t know. I don’t want to know. I’m not a classmate nor in league with PGMA. as I said, I deal with legal things, which you obviously don’t know. And even if I don’t know if PGMA is susceptible to corruption or not, it does’nt matter.
as far as history is concerned, why do you equate PGMA with Mr. Marcos? They’re poles apart. You’re sounding like Obama, accusing McCain of being a Bush.
and about Loren, I don’t know and I don’t care about her. These questions does’nt directly answer some if not all of my assertions in this space.
You did’nt rebut my earlier assertion that we have a stronger economy, better than previous administrations. Hence, that justifies my earlier view on continuity.
oh, where oh where, I pray, is the one who’ll give me the urge to smoke just one cigarette. any one?
ah, these writers are friends of my lovely wife. my wife urged me to stop smoking. waiting for a worthy debater could probably end my smoking habit.
by the way djb, a bit of info about me–I was once a champion in the australasian interparliamentary debates at the Ateneo. And I was not even smoking at that time.
if you people would not debate, then, i may need to call it a day then.
the australs haven’t improved your debate skills, HPS. :D
x
Jeg, “question of her legitiimacy”?
I believe that “question” has already been addressed by our duly-elected representatives as I mention in my post; to wit:
Lest we forget, Gloria won back her right to govern legitimately as a previous bid to impeach her was dismissed in the hands of our duly-elected representatives in September of 2005. Deal with it. That’s what “democracy” is.
Which starts to answer your question here:
Law and order is a fundamental – respect for the Law, its application to all (everyone is equal in its eyes and all that…), and grasp of its spirit rather than mere invokation of its letter (kind of the same principle that differentiates the religious from the spiritual).
We are quick to invoke these “rights” and “sovereign will” when we are shouting down a sitting president from the comfort of our keyboards and the faculties afforded by our education. But if you look at it from the street level, what you see is a people who may themselves not live up to the ideals pompously expected of their leaders.
That we as a people have a shiny track record of perverting otherwise noble ideals is a testament to this reality.
Lastly I do agree that it …
The key words in what you say above is this: if you actually have something to say — which harks to the snippets I highlight in my blog post above. An entire thread of cyber high-fives is to use the kind Dean’s words, “booooring”.
It’s one thing to be boring and still possess substance. But to be boring and vacuous is, well, quite typically Pinoy if you ask me. ;)
As you can see, what smoke and bencard observed about my argumentation style is spot on.
All roads lead back to getrealism — usually within five steps, right rom? ;)
It’s simple.
Really.
djb:
Tired? Nope. I’ve had it with fighting a phantom.
Here’s an open challenge, HP: You and me. Real live actual, gentlemanly debate. No blogs, no anonymity behind the Internet, no cameras, no nothing. Two smokers and drunkards arguing.
Name the time and place. The mood’s about to change.
Yet, all these comments prove just one thing—we are all fascists, even these “esteemed” writers of FV.
Hahaha. Mr. HP, we dont need to make fun of you. You dont need any help in that department. (BTW, I didnt make fun of you before. This is my first comment that does. But dont let that keep you from coming back. Bencard needs a tag team partner.)
Benny: I believe that “question” has already been addressed by our duly-elected representatives as I mention in my post; to wit: blah-blah.
Argumentum ad statingem the obviousem? Yes our people abdicate their sovereignty too easily. You impress me more when you deliver some really new insight and not stating something everyone here already knows. But I have to try hard to remember when the last time was. It’ll come to me.
Yes, the ‘legitimacy’ issue has been settled. Congress can’t settle anything except legally, by fiat. “We declare the matter settled.” Yes for some people that’s enough. The Congress of our duly elected representatives settling the question of trust in the president is another matter, though. But Ive already pointed out an acid test for that: have her try to extend her term. If people ratify that in a plebiscite, so be it. That means we deserve her. (Fair enough, High Priest?)
By the way, I see you placed scare quotes around the word democracy. I can’t say I disagree with you there. Especially when democracy is equated with elections.
come now, marocharim, no cameras, not even webcams?
how will we watch and be persuaded thereby?
Spoken like a true getrealist, Jeg. ;)
And don’t worry if you…
As is the case with most subtle things, it takes a while for people to get it.
It’s the same principle that differentiates witty humour from the Tito-Vic-and-Joey variety.
And don’t worry if you…
Oh I won’t. Cheers, mate.
Don’t you ever brag about your blog on GDP and Energy GROWTH.
IT’s WRONG.