GabbyD makes it sound like some heinously horrific calamity waiting to happen:
[...] my response to mr [benign0] is that term extension for GMA will result in a weakening of filipino institutions — using filipino institutions to perpetuate power. that will bring about huge problems.
But, dude, isn’t that the whole point of on-going routine legislation of Laws — to continuously evaluate their effectiveness and correct weaknesses and gaps as they are discovered?
The fact is, said institutions already are weak. Therefore our Congressmen should have been focusing on legislating these weaknesses out of the system all the while. It does not seem to occur to Filipinos that the very reason we now fear for the stability of these institutions is that we consistently fail to take our Congressmen to task in what is essentially the whole point of their existence in this system we choose to govern ourselves with.
So, instead of being such a big crybaby about “Con-Ass”, we should instead wait for the proposals to be published AND THEN grill these Congressmen on the basis of what they propose. The best way to PROVE the worth (or lack of it) of the whole effort to amend the Constitution is to formulate arguements on the basis of what is evident in the proposal. Because we allowed it to get to this point, we may as well make the most of it — properly.
Contrast this to what is going on today — an entire call to block the Constitution Amendment initiative on the basis of a speculation on hidden agendas and motives of the personalities involved. It’s no wonder the effort is so fragmented. It’s because there is no common ground for all to work on. One person’s haka-haka is another person’s rallying cry. Another person’s rallying cry is yet another person’s source of laughs. And in Pinoy society, wherever there is someone laughing, there will be an army of pikon people going around stomping their feet in “indignation”. There is no evolving doctrine in that favourite Pinoy pasttime of personality speculation. But if we allow, at the very least, a Draft Proposal to be published, then at least we have something in black-and-white to take dissect, quibble over.
A-ha!
Something in black-and-white to quibble over.
And there’s the rub. Maybe this is something Pinoys truly fear: a document — an articulation of an intellectual construct — that will FORCE everyone to elevate the quality of the debate from the COMFY world of baseless speculation in which so-called “activists” and “revolutionaries” here prefer to dwell in to one with a clear basis to work on.
The plot thickens in this ocho-ocho drama called Philippine History in the Making …
============
Join us on Facebook!
Popularity: 3% [?]
ano ba, ang gulo….
your original question was TERM EXTENSION specifically. Term extension is dangerous — its not-even-a-little-bit funny kind of dangerous.
but, now you want to talk about Constitutional amendments generically? OK. i’ll bite.
i really think people should be thinking about these issues, whatever one might think of HR1109 specifically, or the plan to pass amendments without the senate.
game!: as an FV blogger, can you write about some of the proposed changes?
Fair dinkum mate! You have been in Australia for a bit and you haven’t got a clue why Australians don’t trust pollies.
If there is a proposal to amend the Australian Constitution and this smacks of politicians’ self interest expect the electorate to feel the same way we Pinoy botantes are!
Recall the proposal to change your government from a Constitutional Monarchy to a Republic 11 years ago. Aussies smelled the fishy attempts of champagne socialists and the ALP from Double Bay and the amendment didn’t pass. The crafty pollie John Howard was able to torpedo the amendment by proposing a preamble to the Australian Constitution that generated a lot of laughs.
Filipinos are not against constitutional change but they do smell that Gloria Macapagal Arroyo is cooking up a fish!
It seems, Benny can’t fathom that Filipinos are under the same construct of social workings as other cultures, because if he were to stray away from his pigeonhole generalizations, he may have to realize (and admit) that the character traits exhibited are not Filipino alone, but fall under the umbrella of societies across the globe and across history as well. But that would be too complex, and would fall beyond the purview of “simplicity”.
Nick:
Putting a round peg in a square hole is unfathomable.
I maintain, Philippine political culture, norms, and mores are not conducive to a democratic form of government.
Corollary, to that is the implication that a democratic form of government may not be the best form of government fit to Philippine political culture, norms, and mores.
Other cultures have political/civic culture, norms conducive to democracy.
Philippine culture isn’t one of those.
So, instead of being such a big crybaby about “Con-Ass”, we should instead wait for the proposals to be published AND THEN grill these Congressmen on the basis of what they propose.
Pucha naman, ano ba? It’s not the proposals that is causing the outrage. It’s the way the resolution was passed. No consultations, no deliberations, no debates on committee and on the floor. And if the resolution was done in seeming ‘fear’ of consulations, deliberations, and debate, won’t it engender feelings of mistrust in what will actually be proposed and how these proposals will be passed? If democracy is open discussion and debate, why was there an absence of it in the passing of the resolution?
Sure there is the supreme court and the referendum to come, but what do you expect people to do? Calmly wait for these steps to be taken before expressing outrage at how the resolution was passed?
I repeat, in case you missed it and write another post: it’s the way in which the resolution was passed, not the proposals, that is causing the outrage. Focus. Kill the herring, for pete’s sake.
it’s been in black and white since 2006, and as an official document of the house, it has neither been superseded nor disclaimed to date, regardless of the change in leadership. all the various items dribbled out remain in conformity with this blueprint:
Matrix House Proposed Charter Amendments Matrix House Proposed Charter Amendments mlq3 Existing provisions and proposed changes to the Constitution, as drafted by the House of Representatives in 2006. Publish at Scribd or explore others: Other How-to-Guides & Manu Law & Government Government-Asia
dang, it’s been there all along. sheesh, what’s the foot dragging all about.
Methinks you should take a look how Australian politicians have their own interests in amending their constitution. You are in Australia mate.
Jeg, ironic that this statement of yours further highlights the point I make:
There’s your answer there. The “debate” is not the kind of thing that makes the news or captures the sensibilities of the Pinoy electorate. Its absence was apparently not the rallying point of the “activists” on the streets. As GabbyD demonstrates, it is all about the term extension.
mlq3, of course is right, “it’s been in black and white since 2006″. So why then is only one aspect of it being highlighted?
please put desc, tag or name on escalator pic. Where is it?
i suspect that its photoshopped, brian :)
Actually, in another comment, i said the weakening of institutions of the present administration to manipulate constitutional processes to perpetuate its power.
the keywords here are “manipulation of processess” and “perpetuation of power”
so, term extension is part of it, but how they achieve term extension is important too
As GabbyD demonstrates, it is all about the term extension.
Is it? I submit it’s the way the resolution was passed without consultations and deliberations that sowed suspicion in the ‘activists on the streets’ that term extensions would be passed by any and all means necessary. It sowed suspicion that any debate on change provisions would meet with a similar form of ‘debate’.
The reason that this is the only aspect of it being highlighted is because it *is* the highlight as far as the people are concerned. Highlight nga e. That’s the part with the Stabilo mark.
Truth is, as records will prove, there had been consultation and deliberation, however farce, this may have all been.
No greater power on earth can tilt the weight of the majority by sheer number to the other side, the whining minority.
Until then, this is how democracy works. It’s not so much our personal responsibility any more than that of a government gone loco.
Invent some other mechanisms available and push it well.
This is the crux of the matter. FARCE, FARCICAL.
The SCORP will have a say.
Force the issue, and it could windup validating a new revolutionary constitution :lol:
300 congressmen against 15 million in NCR alone – you gotta be kidding me.
Truth is, as records will prove…
What records are these, pray tell?
That’s from sparks’s post, just one post down from this one.
The Majority is not always right. Hitler of Germany had the majority.
Look what he had done to the Jews and to the Germans. Sadam Hussien
had the majority. He slaughtered the Shites in Iraq.
Gloria Arroyo and her conspirators bought less than 200 Congressmen.
She call that majority to amend the Constitution and perpetuate her
reign. MAJORITY, MY ASS.
Hyden,
In Iraq, Shiites are a majority. Saddam is Sunni.
You can see the pattern of attacks already of Gloria Arroyo and
her conspirators. Her Media Dogs are in the Blogosphere and
CyberSpace to sway the minds of the Filipinos for CHACHA and
CON ASS. She is attacking the Media thru the Blogosphere , CyberSpace, internet, etc. This is the trend of the battle.
Calling all Patriotic Filipino Geeks. OUR CAUSE IS JUST!
Talk is cheap, bong.
Your heart may be for RP, but your pair of feet are found in some forgotten state of America.
The course has been pre-plotted (please don’t ask me what the word conn means) and GMA gets what she wants.
Why? On board that ship, very good ‘navigators’. In short, it is almost insurmountable to overcome the majority bloc because the minority alone or the more vocal souls in their row – are not even lawyers. For God’s sake!
Talk is cheap. Remains to be seen.
Primer:
I’m an OFW, a taxpayer who pays your paycheck – intiendes?
It doesn’t matter if I’m in timbuktu – i’m a taxpayer, investor, and i have properties in the philippines that i pay taxes for – i suggest you shove your feet into your mouth.
let’s keep it civilized, although I also take offense with regards to location being an important matter in this discussion.
Just what are you talking about jeg?
Arguing from authority, is the weakest argument. You don’t have to cite sparks or who is she? What you can do is go over the transcript of stenographic notes of that June 2nd orgy.
No, I trust you. You go over it and blog about it, m’kay? I cited sparks because she was there. You claimed you were there, you call the exercise a farce, an orgy, then you present same as proof of deliberations and debate. Pfsh.
Arguing from authority. Haha. Youre funny. But really youre not. Not if you teach at some school for higher learning if I have my facts straight.
You fight your battles with strategy and tactics. You must know the
difference of a strategy and a tactic.
Conflicts and wars are fought in the same manner. In the Media, in
the Businessworld, in Politics.
Good ammunition is your Common Sense. Studying the strategies of
Gen. W. Tecumsheh Sherman, Gen. George Patton, etc…helps in
formulating good strategies and tactics.
Let us not even distort history now.
Enough of an attitude – rallying behind lost causes?
Did people really about the Lozada case and yet rally behind the man?
depends on the cause – custer died for his cause, so did the Pinoys in the Bataan death march.
there is something about honor and integrity that the corrupt can’t get. :lol:
Custer died because of his superiority complex. It turned out he was really stupid because he can’t properly count the native Americans he was attacking.
Filipinos died in the Bataan Death March because the Japanese’s superiority complex. It turned out the Japaneses were just stupid because they too can’t properly count the Filipinos they were fighting.
Honor and integrity can look stupid to the corrupt :lol:
Both ancient and modern writers have used the Battle of Thermopylae as an example of the power of a patriotic army of freemen defending native soil. The performance of the defenders at the battle of Thermopylae is also used as an example of the advantages of training, equipment, and good use of terrain as force multipliers and has become a symbol of courage against overwhelming odds.
bongv, i guess the “vacuous” minds will call the spartans “stupid” for pitting 300 warriors against hundreds of thousand (maybe a million) persians.
Bencard:
I wouldn’t doubt it.
****
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Thermopylae
snippets:
A second reason is the example it set of free men, fighting for their country and their freedom:
“So almost immediately, contemporary Greeks saw Thermopylae as a critical moral and culture lesson. In universal terms, a small, free people had willingly outfought huge numbers of imperial subjects who advanced under the lash. More specifically, the Western idea that soldiers themselves decide where, how, and against whom they will fight was contrasted against the Eastern notion of despotism and monarchy — freedom proving the stronger idea as the more courageous fighting of the Greeks at Thermopylae, and their later victories at Salamis and Plataea attested.”
****
Battle of Tirad Pass, from the wiki:
The Battle of Tirad Pass, sometimes referred to as the “Philippine Thermopylae”, was a battle in the Philippine-American War fought on December 2, 1899, in northern Luzon in the Philippines, in which a 60-man Filipino rearguard commanded by Brigadier General Gregorio del Pilar succumbed to 500 Americans of the 33rd Infantry Regiment under Major Peyton C. March, while delaying the American advance to ensure Emilio Aguinaldo’s escape.
*****
The first battle of Bud Dajo
The First Battle of Bud Dajo, also known as the Battle of Mt. Dajo, was a counter insurgency action fought by American soldiers against native Moros in March 1906, during the Moro Rebellion phase of the Philippine-American War. While fighting was limited to ground action on Jolo Island in the Sulu Archipelago, use of naval gunfire contributed significantly to the overwhelming firepower brought to bear against the insurgents, who were mostly armed with melee weapons. The description of the engagement as a battle is disputed because of both the overwhelming firepower of the attackers and the lopsided casualties. The conflict, especially the final phase of the battle, is also known as the Moro Crater Massacre.
During this battle, 790 men and officers, under the command of Colonel J.W. Duncan, assaulted the volcanic crater of Bud Dajo, which was held by 800 to 1000 Moro rebels, including women and children. According to Herman Hagedorn (who was writing prior to World War II), the position held by the Moros was “the strongest which hostiles in the Philippines have ever defended against American assault.” (pg. 64) Although the battle was a victory for the American forces, it was also an unmitigated public relations disaster. It was the bloodiest of any engagement of the Moro Rebellion, with only six of the hundreds of Moro coming out of the battle alive
****
Battle of Bud Bagsak
The Battle of Bud Bagsak was a battle during the Moro Rebellion phase of the Philippine-American War fought between June 11 and June 15, 1913. The defending Moro resistance fighters were fortified at the top of Mount Bagsak. The attacking Americans were led by General John ‘Black Jack’ Pershing.
Background
In the first months of 1913, the Moro ward of Lati, with a population of between 6,000 to 10,000, fortified themselves in a cotta in Mt. Bagsak. On June 11, 1913, General John Pershing ordered the attack. General Pershing and his American military attacked the fort at Bud Bagsak.
In many other battles in the Morolands, the U.S. Army Colt 0.45 caliber pistol was tested and perfected as an effective “man stopper” against the Moro fighters, who often fought with berserker tendencies.
Battle
The four-day battle was personally led by U.S. Brigadier General John “Black Jack” J. Pershing of the 8th Infantry and Philippine Scouts against Moro resistance fighters armed mostly with kris, barongs, spears and few guns.
During the battle, Pershing came up to the front line and stood so close to the trench, directing operations- his life was endangered by flying barongs and spears which were being continually hurled from the Moro stronghold. At this point in the battle, Pershing sent American officers into the front lines to lead the attack. But, after four days, the fort at Bud Bagsak, along with every warrior fell. General Pershing in a letter to his wife, he wrote: “The fighting was the fiercest I have ever seen… They are absolutely fearless, and once committed to combat they count death as a mere incident.”
******
People will not only rally for a cause, if it means freedom – they will die for their cause.
BongV,
You did not understand what I said so I will explain more.
Custer is stupid for 2 things. First, he didn’t have to attack the native Americans but he did. Second, although outnumbered, he still insisted on attacking them without waiting for reinforcements.
The Japanese Army is stupid because they thought they were fighting a few thousand Filipinos and Americans in Bataan when the true number is closer to 200000. They did not have the logistics to take care of those number of men in captivity. The result is the Death March.
Supremo:
Tactical stupidity and fighting for a cause are coconuts and mangoes.
Primer is the Media Dog of Bayani Fernando and Gloria Arroyo. Primer
the Clown infiltrated and embeded himself as a legitimate Blog Poster
and writer to confuse and desensitize us. So that they can take away
our Freedoms and Rights as painlessly, as they can.
The war is now in the Blogosphere and in the Cyberspace. I am very
glad because this is my line of expertise.
Benigno,
Given that you have accepted Manolo’s piece as that of what will be the proposed amendments; what of those proposals are you willing to defend that is so urgent that Chacha must be done at this time?
We’re waiting for your answer benignO.
BenignO is probably awake now. He might post another blog just to escape this corner that he put himself into.
Supremo,
I think I read Ding write something similar to what you said in a previous article.
Seems you both were right.
justice league, so are you saying that unless it’s “urgent” (according to your definition of the word) cha cha could not, or should not, be done AT THIS TIME? when is a “right time” for you? when the guava fruit falls in your open mouth while you’re sleeping?
i’ll give you one that, to my mind, is urgent. the useless senate must be abolished. another one, of equal or more urgency, is the elimination of the multi-party system in presidential election where a CLEAR majority/mandate for any president is impossible to achieve.
Bencard,
Actually, I would have given Benigno the privilege of determining what would be urgent for him since he will be the one defending his proposals.
If Charter change would be performed for making the anti dynasty provision self executing instead of being dependent on a law to be passed by Congress; I’d say now would be a good time as any but then that is unlikely.
I would say hard to achieve a clear majority/mandate but NOT IMPOSSIBLE.
Given that Pres. Garcia won in 1957 with less than 50% of the vote in a Constitution that doesn’t expressly provide for a multi-party system; I do not share your sense of urgency in that.
In the Sigaw ng Bayan petition, the present Congress was to be replaced by a parliamentary form of government and from there, the parliament was to again try to rewrite the Constitution.
Even if Charter Change today was to be performed solely for abolishing the Senate to secure a unicameral legislature, there is the possibility that the resulting unicameral legislature will proceed in trying further in rewriting the Constitution.
I can’t remember when you left the country whether it was before or after Pres. Marcos declared Martial Law.
One of the proposals in a revised Charter is to do away with the 2nd paragraph of sec. 1 of the article on the Judicial Department which reads
“Judicial power includes the duty of the courts of justice to settle actual controversies involving rights which are legally demandable and enforceable, and to determine whether or not there has been a grave abuse of discretion amounting to lack or excess of jurisdiction on the part of any branch or instrumentality of the Government.”
The framers of the Constitution put that there to prevent another “Javellana”. That paragraph was what made it able for the SC to declare parts of PGMA’s PP1017 as unconstitutional etc….
And as based on the House proposals shown by Manolo; they will remove that.
The Senate serves as a stumbling block to their plans for doing so among other things. I do not share your sense of urgency in proposing that the Senate be abolished.
Btw for anyone who cares to now, proponents of Chacha have already previously admitted that the proposals shall be accepted or rejected in toto.
That’s going to be another contentious issue – the changes in the national patrimony section can be passed without having to remove the bicameral system.
Gloria Arroyo and her conspirators are determined to twist every
legal means to stay in power.
He even implanted and embeded Media Dogs like Primer the Clown to
confuse and desensitize us. The War is now in the Blogosphere,
CyberSpace and in all outlets of the internet.
Toro, you have never explained how or why everyone will vote FOR the passing of ChaCha when the plebescite comes around.
The plot thickens in this ocho-ocho drama called Philippine History in the Making …
Hhmmm. Big rallies planned against HR1109.
While we’ve only just begun, some folks are just rarin’ to go and sing Virna Lisa’s old tune:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wWTqd1OJ9U&feature=related
Fiesta na naman! :)
Nick,
My comment has been ‘pigeonholed’ for bong. I stand corrected though. Still, I’m glad bong defines his ‘stakes’ in this country.