I cannot but put into simple terms, what comes to mind with regards to the legitimizing of The MILF’s need to have within their purview of control The Bangsamoro Juridical Entity, and that is of separation and not unity. OUr nation loses when we as a nation cannot come to terms with our own differences, but still live together as a united republic. What the MILF wants does not include unity, it only includes the need for power, and the taking of that power by any means necessary, including turning The Philippines into their own war zone.
What peace is there in separation? There cannot be such a peace, because separation still means that we live among our brothers and sisters in Mindanao. Why must we avoid, instead of confronting our problems head on?
The need for understanding and living and respecting our differences, that is the ultimate goal that we should all be striving for. For the years that I can remember, the ultimate goal of the MILF has been based, in my opinion, on exploiting differences, and not what binds us as a nation.
There can be peace — without the MILF.
It is power, among all things, that keeps the peace process from ever coming to a clear and present reality. It is unlike the power that our dear president has sought, in 2004, and now maybe even beyond. To use our dear brothers and sisters in Mindanao, as an excuse, is to me, a crime too much for all of us, Mindanaoans included, to just overlook.
We live in a republic, with much difference, rooted in culture and history, this is not a reason to abandon unity, it is a mere roadblock, a challenge, that must be overcome, not be shied away from, and used as a political ploy for those with political motives, above and beyond the peace that is sought by the people of Mindanao and the entire republic.
Unity is a term that escapes this debate, I would like to put it into play. Because if our goal is to move our nation forward, both in terms of economics and freedom, then the oppressors, such as those who control the power structure of the MILF, and those who control our entire nation, the politicians in collusion with the oligarchs of our nation, must be stopped.
And so we have to look, at a memorandum of agreement that is being rammed down our throats, to realize that there are a few political players on both sides, government and MILF, that have taken it upon themselves, to play dictator, and decide the fate of our nation, because their interests will be achieved by such an agreement. Last I heard, this was a democracy, where such acts could not be made without the consent of the people of the republic, and not just a few who think they can put one over the entire nation.
It is sickening, disheartening, and puts one in a mood of sheer anger, when such events take place, especially when there are so many people and organizations in this nation, that have taken it upon themselves to work for unity and understanding, and not separation and a lack of empathy.
Just because there exist a marginalized people, we cannot abandon them, nor do we abandon the goal of caring and providing for these people. It’s the same argument with the poor and the least of our brethren, who have become marginalized, because they lack the political power in our government, our goal is the same nonetheless, to bring them into the fold, to provide adequate care, to provide freedom from oppression, both economic and political. We don’t create a homeland for the poor, nor should we create a homeland for the Bangsamoro people. We should think of ways, and solutions, to bring unity, not separation.
We, the people of the Philippines, should be angered at the government’s role in such a push towards a fake resolution of peace, that will no sooner divide us a nation rather than unite us. We, the people of The Philippines, should strive to understand the root of the problem, instead of wishing it away, along with a parcel of land that do not address the problem, but is a band aid solution of a problem which is a lack of understanding of the needs of our brothers and sisters in Mindanao.
It is a shame that we can live in a nation that claims to one day be unified, and yet is blind to the need of those FILIPINOS in Mindanao. They exploit our differences.
We are culturally different, but we need not be strangers in our own republic.
Popularity: 1% [?]
*nods in agreement*
Gloria Arroyo help set the tone for the current divisiveness when she brought out the ‘Imperial Manila’ rhetoric in one of her previous SONA’s.
I think there is far less strife between Muslims and non Muslims in Mindanao than there is among the Muslim leaders. IN fact, despite the best efforts of self-loathing filipinos, most of the war and violence there can be attributed to the schisms that divide Muslims. I mean, Allah protect Mohammed, but the MNLF and the MILF are really more like Shia and Sunni. Then I think there are some folks for whom the anti-American anti-Spanish ideology they grew up on while imbibing Constantino has become an indispensable intellectual grievance that must be transubstantiated to “imperial Manila”, to the “Heirs of colonialism”, whose ancestors succumbed to the “foreign invaders.”
I agree with your point of view here Ding, as long as we distinguish the Bangsamoro people from the MILF, who are not their leaders, not their inspiration.
I honestly think that without the insurgencies Mindanao would’ve prospered far beyond anything they can promise were it to be given to them as a plaything and fiefdom. They’ve proven nothing about their legitimacy, either in plebiscites or on the field of battle, so now they are cynically riding on Gloria’s last desperate gamble to savage the Constitution in the name of a peace that the MILF are savaging.
Our greatest dereliction of duty and morals would be to surrender the Bangsamoro people and Mindanao to that bunch of armed thugs who would surely turn into a wasteland of corruption, theocracy and institutionalized banditry.
Haven’t we learned the lesson yet? Independence is not necessarily a solution to a country’s problems, for all you gain from independence is just that, independence. But whatever problems exist independent of the foreign occupier won’t evaporate with independence. If anything, they will only get worse. I don’t care how rich Mindnao is in natural resources if those who possess it are poor in spirit, poor in know how, poor in Justice and Fairness.
A Bangsamoro homeland run by the MILF would be absolute hell for the bangsamoro!
DJB, the above is Nick (not Ding).
Nick, DJB, this is a genuine question (not a rhetorical one)… how sure are we that the MILF does not enjoy at least some support from (of reflect the aspirations of) their populace? An accurate answer to this is important because to solve the problem, we have to know whether this is more in the nature of dealing with a bunch of criminals or whether it is an actual rebellion. It would be dangerous to mistake one for the other.
Unfortunately, the same cannot be said of the government side where we are more sure that the ones who are leading us are criminals. :-(
cvj, for your basic education, criminals are those who violate the penal code. rebellion is a crime defined and punished by the code, ergo rebels are criminals. now, why is it dangerous to mistake one from the other? just another one of your false dichotomies. study first before you spit out something from your mouth with an air of authority. nakakahiya naman, iho.
btw, if you can show anyone on the government side who is violating the penal code, then that one is a criminal. i doubt, though, that all of them are, as you unabashedly proclaim.
@cvj,
they (the MILF) have support only because they hide from their propaganda of words, but back it up only in violence and state terrorism. I am not an apologist for DJB, nor do I need to defend him, he’s quite capable of doing that for himself, but on this issue, I have to agree with him, solely based on the circumstances and what has happened on the ground with THE MILF.
I don’t doubt that THE MILF have support, this is only because they play on the emotions of the masa of the bangsamoro people, that they aren’t getting a fair shake in the government, that they are culturally different, and thus deserve to be a separate entity from the Philippines as a whole. This, I have to assert, is the goal of THE MILF, to exploit this “difference”.
Again, just because the government has failed to bring the bangsamoro into the fold, does not mean, we do not try. It just means, that the obstacles in achieving this, such as the MILF as a whole, must be moved out of the way.
There is a way that both respects cultural differences, avoidance seems to me a childish and unimaginative way of solving such problems.
First off on the list, in order to help that region prosper, must be security, then development of infrastructures, both in the physical sense and social safety nets. A development of poverty programs, because it is in poverty that the roots of insurgency and crime festers.
Addressing corruption, so that the proper subsidies and government money is funneled 100% to the programs and projects, and not into the pockets of politicians.
And by the way, who’s to say, that given the track record of the MILF, that they would not plunder the land, the resources, and the economy of the bangsamoro people, once in power??
Dealing with the devil I tell you, this is what this agreement is.
The first thing we need to do is get rid of this blight in Manila called the “Edsa Shrine” (that soot-covered thing jutting out of the Edsa-Ortigas intersection in Metro Manila).
It is an ENDURING symbol of the STRANGLEHOLD of the Catholic Church on the National government and a reminder to all non-Catholics what their “place” is in Pinoy society.
When we get that part done, we will have gone a long way (albeit maybe just the first step) in DEMONSTRATING how serious we are about becoming a truly unified, OPEN, and MODERN society.
Bencard, beyond the violation of the letter of the law there is a difference having to do with the circumstances that led to such a violation.
Nick, thanks for your explanation. I do think the MILF does tap into their constintuencies’ discontents. I could also grant good faith on some (or many) of its members in that they want to genuinely see a better future for their people. Acknowledging that reality will help us avoid missteps that would perpetuate the rebellion.
Absolutely, dead nuts spot on, Benign0. Before we go demanding a secular non-Islamist society in Mindanao, we must ensure that Manila itself would be free of the charge that it is guilty of Christianism. Among all our Presidents, no one has so explicitly, politically and unconstitutionally crossed the wall of separation between Church and State than GMA. Not only on her birth control stance, but in the matter of how Pagcor has made the collection plate largely unnecessary for the central Catholic authorities, and in myriad other ways.
cvj, Nick,
Thanks for the heads up, I did mean “Nick” and not “Ding”. BTW, I do need and appreciate any defense of ideas I espouse.
Regarding the difference between plain criminals and rebels, there are few, if any, ordinary criminal gangs which maintain national offices and central committee, spokesmen, academics and armed units with uniforms, and also conduct formal peace talks with the entire government. The closest thing would be Mafias and the Crips.
But that is also why I am working hard to get the MILF put on the US, EU and UN terrorist lists. On my blog I’ve defined terrorism as organized criminal activity undertaken for political as opposed to merely finanacial goals, a distillation or clarification of the Human Security Act definition.
As to their level of popular support, I don’t think the Republic has been so derelict in its duties and intentions as to suppress the rise of any legitimate political muslim leader at least within the ambit of elections and the legal system. But they surely don’t have anywhere near universal or even massive popular support. Just as the MNLF!
Hi Nick,
Agree. As previously expressed in various entries on the Bangsamoro Question, the central government just used the Mindanao issue as a sort of “wag the dog” thing.
Look, this early, we forgot all about the serious gut issues created by Gloria. As for the support of Muslims there on the BJE, well, that’s a presumption. A referendum should be done to really determine their level of support.
Nonetheless, DJB Rizalist is too presumptive for his own comfort. While defending that notion that the Bangsamoro should not be given a government of their own, he insults his fellow Filipinos by saying that a government run by them will be hell. How do you know that DJB? Are you now a psychic?
What’s your basis of comparison? None, my friend. We have’nt seen them engaged in governance. And just because we presume that the MILF does not enjoy widespread mass support, they don’t have any right to lead the Bangsamoro people?
I agree with Nick that the issue lies in our present problems in political governance. Change is the order of the day. We need to rid ourselves of Gloria and her ilk and put some order in our country. The question that I would like to ask is this—are we prepared for war? We have been writing about this for a loong time and most of us are itching to solve the problem. And all of us know and agree that change is needed. Yet, at this point, no one seems to stand up and charge the Bastille!
so on to your favorite scapegoat, huh patricio? lay the blame on “gloria” for the milf’s rebellion? why not, right? she is responsible for all the beheadings going on in mindanao, isn’t she? don’t be too sure that “all agree” to make the change you are implying. no one stands up because, maybe, no one agrees with you.
Patricio,
You, like the CPP-NPA-NDF, and the Left in general, like to dwell on the dichotomy between “war” and “peace” and then beg the question of which of the two we ought to “prefer” and “support”. But like the criticism of the war on terror as a war on a “tactic” all miss the essential point that all of these tactics are part of strategies, ideologies and systems of faith that can never be made equivalent on the scales of moral relativism. Democracy and theocracy, freedom and totalitarianism are irreconcilable. Perhaps it would help if we all come to interpret the so-called clash of civilizations as a conflict not so much between East and West, but between these polar opposites of human culture and civilization.
Yes, I forthrightly oppose the MILF, and refuse to allow them a government, even if it may be Muslims at first who are thereby disadvantaged. I carefully watched the events of 2007 which began with kidnapping of Fr. Giancarlo Bossi, and the ambush/beheading of a Marine unit searching for him. I saw very clearly the MILF’s admission of that ambush (which they did with relish and braggadocio) and then with horror at how Dureza-Garcia-Puno protected them on behalf of their “partners in the peace process” after warrants for their arrest were issued.
As far as I am concerned the MILF is in fact a terrorist organization and that Bangsamorostan would be not only a sultanate restored, but a full state sponsor of terrorism. I oppose it on that basis.
The matter of ancestral domain is another matter of considerable importance that is treated with a certain naivete by liberals and peace advocates. As it stands I say to everyone that fully one third of the territory of the RP are potentially included to be assigned to about one ninth of the population. This is to me absurd guilt tripping and will surely lead to dismemberment and incessant war if it is allowed to prevail.
I’d agree with this only if we remove the name “Gloria” and qualify the word “ilk” by regarding it as encompassing everything about the way we run the Philippines from the “holy trinity” of Malacanang, the CBCP, and ocho-ocho politics.
In other words, we need to rid ourselves of the old theocratic/feudal complex that convolutes our politics and keeps our society from moving beyond its current chaotic grotesqueness.
I agree with you, DJB when you say that…
…but differ slightly in your saying that…
… and propose that GMA is just the most recent of a long line of politicians that served under the paralysing shadow of the Catholic Church and our Christianic state.
So we need to put a stop to our tired old Gloria-this-and-Gloria-that nonsense and focus on the underlying rot in our society and our cultural psyche that perpetuates the moronic politicians that Filipinos have come to deserve.
Bencard,
I don’t think Patricio is making GMA a “scapegoat”. Her handling of this matter is despicable, clumsy and almost sure to foment war and bloodshed. Being intelligent herself, and surely well-advised from a legal standpoint, I’d be interested to hear your take on why she tried to get an obviously flawed agreement signed that simply begs the question of chacha. How can she be accused of merely being a scapegoat, when she IS the Goat trying to escape justice and retribution? She IS the President you know, and none of this can be blamed on anyone else but her. Those Four Stooges–Esperon, Dureza, Garcia and Puno are just cuckold pinheads going along for the ride on her tiger to hell.
now, djb, it’s not like your normal self to be arguing from emotional surmises and unfounded generalizations. it doesn’t befit your monicker why don’t you reserve that to the kids who don’t seem to know any better?
first you conclude without any premise that the agreement is a “flawed” one, says who? drilon? roxas? tamano? congress and the senate each want to conduct an investigation evidently because they don’t know whether or not it’s flawed, or that there was a better and practicble alternative. and here you are making your own proclamations with all authoritative pretenses and undertones.
second you proclaim gma is the “goat” trying to escape justice or retribution. the last i heard, she is in malacanang and not at all “escaping”, nor attempting to escape, from the majesty of the law. you can call her subordinates all the names you want, but don’t beg the question of whether the president, factually, legally, and according to the best principles of justice and fairness, is blameworthy of anything.
cvj, not to give you a free lesson on criminal law, but the “circumstances of violation” only affects the penalty that may be imposed, not the crime itself. but back to the question. how does this “distinction” solve the problem, or how does “mistaking” a rebel from a criminal be dangerous? you may end this argument by not responding – it’s o.k. with me.
Just a thought, gentlemen. Last I heard, the MILF and the other secessionists down south don’t even say they are Filipinos.Can someone ‘enlighten’ me minus any condescending tone. :)
Bencard, a rebellion is a fight among segments of a population so by its nature, it has a political aspect which means it cannot be handled just like any other common crime. That does not preclude treating rebels like criminals under the law but whether or not that eliminates the source of the rebellion is the question i was asking above (at August 6th, 2008 11:41 pm).
cvj, again, read my lips. rebels are not “treated” as criminals. they are criminals in the eyes of the law.
For me that constitutes on their part:
(1) renouncement of citizenship; which means,
(2) they are de facto aliens or foreign nationals; which means,
(3) their presence on Philippine soil is subject to Immigration Laws; implying that,
(4) non-compliance to Immigration Law (e.g. lack of a current visa or whatever required immigration papers) makes them subject to deportation; thus,
(5) government officers/agents to apply force to individuals who decline to leave peacefully.
Maybe this principle also applies:
Foreign nationals that are organised in some form of military structure unilaterally occupying territory is an act of war and justifies use of military force by the government that has sovereign authority over said occupied territory to remove said foreign nationals.
It’s simple, really. ;)
Bencard, try to go beyond the legal aspect given that we (you, me and DJB) agreed in the previous thread that, as per the United States’ Declaration of Independence, rebellion can be considered an extra-legal and extra-constitutional right (provided certain qualifications are met).
spot on, benigno. i believe, though, that they need to do a formal act of renunciation and, unless conferred citizenship by some other country, e.g. malaysia, they will be stateless persons – which opens up a new can of worms for them.
cvj, but we are talking about philippine law under which, as i said, rebellion is a crime.
Bencard, when the thirteen colonies that eventually became the United States revolted, they were also violating the laws of the British Empire.
yes, cvj, but they won and so they got to write their own declaration of independence.
Again, wtf is this over analysizing by Benign0, Bencard, cvj???
Really guys, talk is cheap.
philman, tf is, just keep on reading. you might learn something.
bencard,
First, I don’t google my views. Second, I live in the Philippines so I’m not out of touch. Last but not the least, because myself and family are here, we have clear and present stake in what happens to this country.
philman, who’s “googling” his views? speaking for myself, i see people here who could be googling information, but views? i doubt it. i bet every source of information that you rely on is available to us wherever we are. if you tell me that you are an EYEWITNESS to everything that is happening there, then maybe, just maybe you’re right – you are better “in touch” than we are.
how can you presume we have no family there, or property, or concern for the land of our birth and the people in it? if you claim you have a stake better than mine, you are wrong, friend.
Wow, the comment police has arrived.
@Philman, I believe that the only way to be engaged is to analyze the issues. Ignorant is what many in power would have us be, but I have to say, that even though Bencard, Benign0, and CVJ, in your point of view may be over-analyzing things, I see it as a discussion to further our own understanding on things. An exchange in views is good, if only to see what plausible explanations there are in the issues that confront us. In our case, in this post, it is the BJE and “peace” in Mindanao.
If you wish us to just keep quiet, then are we just to take the issues at face value, have our leaders tell us what’s happening? Last I heard, we too were thinking beings, able to discern.. I think all of us have a great stake in what is currently happening, I don’t think it’s anyone’s right to blindly throw out such accusations, whether or not we live in Mindanao, Manila, or outside the country, that’s never enough information to conclude the passion with which each Filipino has for his/her country.
well said, mike. thanks.
Bottom line is, blogs are where people analyse and share analyses. When you are on a basketball court you play ball. When you are logged on to a blog, you analyse and comment.
Simple.
The problem with small minds is that they need to have things spelled out, like the coffeemate commercial – coffeemate in my milk, coffee in my cereal, makes sense to me…: they have to make sure the market gets it right.
benign0,
Yes, after “voting with you feet years ago.”
Its simple really.
Balik-miron. Plain and simple.