Former President Joseph "Erap" Estrada
After all is said and done, I salute Erap’s balls to face the music and go to jail – You have gotta hand it to the man. We can bicker that he was given the kid gloves treatment, BUT he still went to jail.
To me, Erap’s mystique lies in his ability to transform his public persona into a symbol of the aspiration of the broader masses. As a symbol, Erap is already an icon and he will always be there. I do understand (or maybe I don’t, who knows except Erap himself) why Erap will run again – to redeem his honor (not to mention the stated intention of uplifting the masses).
Here is a man, who went against the elitist trends of Philippine politics and was swept into power by a popular mandate. A vote so massive that it overwhelmed dag-dag bawas. He won. No contest. Hands down. However, he and his team lacked the sophistication and discretion needed to survive in the snake pit that surrounds the office entrusted to him. Erap’s only sin was he got “caught” or the perception that he got caught was so strong that the response it generated in reality was the same response if it were true that he indeed was guilty (that’s another topic and I don’t want to even go there).
I am inclined to believe, and feel free to disagree with me, that by going to jail, Erap has redeemed his honor. Moreover, despite his conviction Erap still connects with the common tao – Erap has political capital. We can either hate him or like him, the fact is he will remain a symbol of the common man and the earlier we deal with the fact the better.
As the nation goes into another electoral cycle, I can just imagine the pull of politics, the push from the people around him, people who encourage him to run.
Let’s just say, for discussion’s sake, under a hypothetical scenario, he will be legally allowed to run again for President. What next? The pressing question then (to me anyways) is “to run or not to run”.
What will he do this time around if he were to run again? I would bet it will be one hell of an election. Will the opposition rally around Erap? Will the opposition still have a plurality? What is Erap’s agenda? What is his position on charter change? How about term extensions? What is his position on legalizing gambling? Is he willing to go against the Catholic Church and legalize gambling? How about cronyism? How about nepotism? There are many unanswered questions.
As a Pinoy, I understand the sympathy for the underdog; this time around Erap seems to be the underdog. If it were so, at this moment in history, Erap is still one mothereffin underdog. I might find his political will misguided (and many will disagree with me, feel free to do so this is a free country), but the man has political will and uses his political capital when it deals on issues that are close to his heart. This leaves other concerns unattended, and obviously, that is where the cabinet secretaries fill in for the former President. Who are these people who will help him achieve his agenda. What exactly is his agenda? Beyond redemption, retribution? Will he focus on politics or will he exercise political will to get an agenda done? If Erap is intent on getting things going, are elections the only way for him to achieve a transformative agenda?
If Erap decides to pursue an alternative track, is he willing to play elderly statesman and unify the opposition behind a candidate that can truly transform the Philippines? Unifying the opposition and building consensus is a herculean task. If Erap pulls that off, I believe he has done this country a service.
Symbols are powerful; any brand manager will tell you that. Behind a symbol lies a product. Erap is a symbol, a brand, a product, an aspiration, a person – in 2010, do we get to see an upgrade?
Erap is the broader masses answer to many questions. But is Erap the right answer? For sure, our opinions will differ widely.
Popularity: 2% [?]
he went to jail? didn’t he just go on house arrest?
he went to jail prior to his house arrest – http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article2437550.ece
http://www.pinoyspy.com/2007/10/25/gloria-arroyo-pardons-jailed-ex-president-estrada-after-guilty-verdict/
house arrests for extended period are still no mean feat, am sure Aung San Syu Kii will attest to house arrest.
huh? neither article said he went to jail (altho the headlines are misleading). he was also pardoned.
he was jailed in a military camp. camp magsaysay, nueva ecija.
pardon does not erase the fact that he was jailed.
Pardon does not erase the fact that ERAP was guilty.
There is:
A) — “committed a crime, convicted, served time, then pardoned”;
(B) did not commit a crime, convicted, served time, found innocent, pardoned
———-
ERAP, like Teehanke, is Case-(A) — guilty.
I deemed it fairly applied the natural course of justice having taken its due course in the case of Erap’s conviction, going to jail, and presidential pardon (oh the lawyers know better)granted him.
It then is misleading whether indeed, going all through these, would have redeemed his honor, I am not sure.
It would be further misleading I think if Erap decides to run again for the same (mis)stated agenda of redemption, if worst than that, retribution.
The job at reconstruction resulting from the massive damage of most of our institutions – from the civil service, to the military, to the police, to the legislature, to the executive, to the judiciary (words to that effect from Prof. Randy) – are clearly insurmountable if Erap seats as president.
BongV,
When you say Erap represents the broader masses, I imagine the hard-working tricycle drivers, fishermen, farmers and construction workers who, upon finishing the day, would like nothing better than a swig of some coconut wine, for lack of the funds for beer, and lay down a few pesos in that gambling game of coin toss they play in the streets. I can see the affinity for a fellow “regular guy”.
My outside irrelevant view: I think the country does not need a “soap operaesque” figure from the past. There is something non-progressive about that, and the Philippines needs progressive out the gazoo. It needs a person with focus on something other than dice or cards or whatever Erap plays. It needs a “desk jockey” who is up on EVERY issue, sleeves rolled up, demanding results and riding his cabinet like Man O’War. Not flitting about the globe, not parlaying at the parlay house, not posing for road signs. Getting PROGRESSIVE work done.
Joe
heroes or villains, tormentors or saviors? we cannot truly distinguish which is which, one reason we cannot find our bearing as a nation. credit that to the lack of sophistication of our people. errr, even those who claimed that they are intellectuals would still adore Erap as the common-man’s symbol of hope and aspiration.
The other view is this. There is too much appeal in having to portray oneself as the man of the masses, not for the genuine reason of love for them but to serve his own vainglory or vanity. Or Erap made millions doing films mostly along the lines of “Robin-Hood” capers and one can understand the hypnotic spell he has on the people some bloggers here would call the hoi polloi or the “unwashed”.
Reality is, Erap was most of the time drank and playing card games with a retinue of rich people in a Presidential yacht, and when he was imrisoned, we conveniently compare him to Mandela or Ang Sung Kyui. And the guy who wrote this post, ironically, is the most pretentious intellectual here at FV. What a joke..
jcc:
am no intellectual – am a beach bum. :lol:
are beach bums not allowed to walk in the “sacrosanct blogs” populated by your “intellectuals” like jcc and his ilk and the accompanying Englitscheze convoluted gobbledygook :lol:
as to me being called “pretentious” – been called worse – not a biggie. what else is new. if this is the kind of discourse you and your kind revels in – feel free to indulge with your species.
i have no love lost for Erap – so the ability or inability to identify between right or wrong is way off the target – or you are barking at the wrong tree.
bongv,
so what is the difference between the one liner, “Exactly, you got it” for those people who agree with you and “feel free to indulge with your species” to those who do not agree with you?
beach bum logic?
and who compares erap to Ang Su Kyui?-
you are like mark anthony disowning any sympathy for julius caesar but the reality is even your title gives you away. there is no redemption of getting back the presidency because he was doing it for personal vanity and pure act of self-preservation to what is generally perceived to be his role in the Dacer-Curbito slay.
whatever is your portrayal of independent thought such is mudded by the title, the picture of erap and your ang sui comparison.
the “comparison” refers to the inconveniences of house arrest – not the circumstance which led to their house arrest, or the personalities under house arrest.
your opinion of erap is a point of view that i can relate with. talk about preaching to the choir.
however, such a view, inasmuch as i agree with it, is not the view of the common tao, given that Erap still has a large following. inasmuch as i can get on the bully pulpit about accountability, but the common tao still believe it is big bad government – rightly or wrongly – you can have all the panggagalaiti you want – but it ain’t gonna change the fact that there is a large number of people out there who think otherwise.
I think BongV painted a pretty accurate portrait of Erap. He is simply describing the phenomenon of Erap. He is neither endorsing or condemning the man. He’s just telling us – ‘here’s this guy, this is how I think a lot of people see him. ” and he’s asking us -”What do you think, is it a good thing or a bad thing?”
Exactly! You got it.
Patricio,
Read this: Mancao went home. Suddenly, Ping lost his presidential ambition. Mancao’s homecoming suddenly went quite. Erap is making waves. If the Mancao operators will turn the knob a little bit tighter we might see Erap losing his presidential ambition too or might continue making waves hoping that with his appeal with the masses, he could counter-maneuver Mancao’s operators or strike out a deal with Mancao’s operators.
Bottomline: The death of Dacer and Curbito is being dealt like a big political game card to promote one’s political agenda and not with the noble purpose of getting justice for these two hapless victims.
This is what we call justice, Philippine version!!!
Erap may as well be president. He’s always been entitled to the office in the first place because he embodies much of what the Pinoy really is. :D
korek ka dyan Benign0.. :)
I’d have to agree.
A former officemate once asked me, “Is that what the people want? A womanizer, gambler, drunkard, basagulero and less educated person for a leader?” Well, it makes sense if most of his voters are the same kind of people. The problem is not just in the politics and politicians but in the culture.
But it’s still not a good thing for me if he becomes national leader again. My late grandma’s best friend is a sister-in-law of Erap and she herself said, that if Erap becomes president, she’ll evacuate to the States with her family. And that happened.
if erap becomes either president or king-maker, then filipinos deserve nothing much worse. he is the scourge, the punishment, for pinoy’s stupidity and hardheadedness. that’s his value. who can trust any president elected through his sponsorship?
I was waiting for this comment Bencard :lol: :lol: :lol:
Amen :)
Erap Estrada is a populist politician. He has the charisma to attract
voters. A very rare asset of a politician. Gloria Arroyo has none.
She has duplicity.
However, our country needs an able leader to solve our present problems. We need a very competent man or woman to tackle these problems. Charisma may help get voters. But, it does nothing to
better our situation.
We would like him, to unite the opposition, and the Filipino people
against impending Dictatorship, CHA CHA or CON ASS. If he can help on this unity of all sides of oppositions. The Filipino people will
be grateful to him for saving the country from Dictatorship. Safeguarding our rights and Freedoms. Future Filipinos will gratefully remember him.
erap can be the answer..or teodoro, pede din cguro Bayani…o kaya c GMA ulet…ayy wala na lang election. :)
erap…idol ng mahihirap hehehe…ilang percent ba ng botante ay mahirap?
i rather watch camfrog that put my worth bout erap and some other clowns. its fun watching hotel ni nyeta or pinoy kantot academy than this circus.
Surprisingly, your view of Erap in this post is a little bit different from your view of him in another thread.
I think his stance on many issues is already known. He is for changes in economic provisions of the Charter. He is for legalization of gambling. He is for the basic principles of the Reproductive Health bill.
What I appreciate in an Erap presidency is that he is able to inspire. And I think that is very important. I also appreciate his choices of his cabinet members. But I this his lack of work ethics provided a very bad example for the people he was leading.
I agree with you that he redeemed himself when he refused to leave the country and went to jail and faced the charges against him. But he blew it when he accepted Arroyo’s pardon.
If he runs only to redeem himself, then I won’t vote for him. Because he would be running for the wrong reason.
J,
We are really lost of the lexicon here. Why is being reelected back to office again becomes his redemption? So after his second election, all those drunk dining, playing cards at the presidential yacht, jueteng payolas, and his reported ivolvement in some “murders” are already gone and he goes back with a clean slate?
My concept of redemption is bibilical and religious. We redeem ourselves by purifying by asking forvigeness, and casting out every demon in our person.
Getting back to office so the DE group can have their own thieves on the realm is hardly my concept of redemption. :)
Erap insists that his conviction was moved by politics. If he gets elected, he probably thinks it would be an “acquital” by the electorate. Hence, the concept of redemption.
Similarly, Jose P Laurel’s election in the Senate after the war redeemed his honor after being tainted with accusations of treason for his collaboration with the Japanese during the war.
Make no mistake, though. I do not share the view that Erap’s re-election would be his redemption.
J,
You are not arguing that Erap is blameless, are you? If he got convicted because of politics, does that not evoke some sympathy in favor of politics because of it justice was served?
Or are you saying that election to office will clear any previous wrongdoing, or are we in agreement here that it might only clear up the perception of wrongdoing but not erase the reality of wrongdoing?
BTW Osmena was only accused by public opinion of wrongdoing, he was not brought to trial, got convicted and later on pardoned.
Erap is another thing. He was convicted and pardoned but he was being pursued to return the loot of his plunder.
I mean Laurel, (the public have the same perception of Osmena and Laurel during the Japanese era.. . both were being accused as japanese collaborators, Laurel for having accepted the position offered to him by the Japanese government while Osmena purportedly did business with the Japanese).
Yes, Laurel was not brought to trial. But he was willing to go to trial. He was given an amnesty by Roxas which he detested, because he preferred being acquited in a trial than be given amnesty. The amnesty assumed that he was guilty of collaboration. And when Laurel became topnotcher of the Senate elections, he claimed it as a vindication.
My view is, Erap could have been corrupt, but I believe his trial was politically-motivated. It would have been better if his impeachment trial was continued instead of aborted by an emotional walk-out over the refusal to open the second envelope (at the height of Edsa 2, Erap offered to have the envelope opened, by but that time the people are already in the streets. The bad thing about this is that when the envelope was opened, it turned out to be irrelevant in the case.) The impeachment was transferred by the then Speaker arbitrarily. Joe Dizon even warned at the beginning that they won’t accept an Erap acquittal. Which means that they (the EDSA 2 crowd) have judged Erap already even before the evidence were presented. There too is the case of Erap’s ouster. Every legal luminary (even Law students) agree that it was unconstitutional. In fact, nani Perez asked Erap to pwrite a resignation letter in exchange for the withdrawal of all charges against him and assylum in any country of his choice, but he refused.
In short, my opinion is that justice was not served.
I didn’t say Erap’s re-election would vindicate him. What I’m saying is, this might eb what Erap thinks. As to the public perception, I believe majority of the CDE class THINK Erap’s innocent.
my comments still awaiting modertaion.
J,
Let us get our bearing here. By its very nature, impeachment is a political process, it is not judicial, otherwise, it should have been brought to court. GMA was impeached twice/thrice but the proponents lost because of the number of GMA supporters in the House and the Senate. Impeachment is all about politics. In the case of Erap, where the political process in the House failed because of the walk-out, the process spilled over political process on the streets and this political process on the street spilled over the fabric of the civil institutions which you say had conspired to depose Erap.
The political process agaist GMA remains on the street and did not foment so much outrage as to infect the civil institutions as to demand her ouster via “constructive resignation” too.
So what if Erap was deposed because of politics? His office is a political office and his ouster could be triggered by anything political.
Erap has mystified the DE class because of his decades of doing slapstick “Robin-Hood” films which gave him millions. Acting is what Erap is good at, but to mend our corrupt government, “acting” is more than required.
I guess we have to agree to disagree, jcc. My view is that in any political process, the political, not civil, institutions be involved. Allowing the civil institutions to intervene in a constitutional question (like ouster of a president) empowers the elite who control them, not the people.
Also, while impeachment is a political process, it must not be a partisan process. Certain aspect of judicial fairness must be employed. Substance, not numbers, must be the game. Otherwise, the very essence of such check and balance mechanism will be dilluted because the process would be susceptible to utilization not for the purposes of check and balance but for the vested interests of people who control them.
And, while not among the best presidents, Erap did more than act in his two years in Malacanang.
J,
If you premise the argument that Erap does not deserve to be President despite his popularity to DE class, it would be inconsequential if he was ousted by the power-elite. At least you can rest in the oasis that the power elite did something right by replacing one underserving to President.
Just read Rosa’s take on the thread to be enlightened.
on the contrary, Id rather have a not-so-good president for six years than destroying the democratic processes, which leads to a vicious cycle, and giving power to the elite.
So, no, I’m not thankful to the elite. Afterall, Erap was not THAT bad.
Fortunately, he was removed early enough so as not get THAT bad.
The democratic process is not just about elections, it also includes accountability.
Holding Erap accountable under the rule of law does not destroy the democratic process, it actually upholds the process.
In retrospect – http://www.chanrobles.com/cralawscdecisionestradavsarroyo2001.htm
J,
So now I am clear about your position. But would your concept of politics getting into the fabric of our civil institutions and thus weakening these institutions would still be the same if Erap was declared by the Supreme Court the legitimate President and did not swear in GMA?
Or are we seeing only the weakening of our civil institutions because the result arrived at by these institutions happened to be against the President we consider “not bad after all?”.
Or do you think these civil institutions can operate in a vacuum and unmindful of the infectious politics that they have spawned? Take heed of Jeffersonian’s opus that the members of the Court have their own party affiliations, core, greed for power, and in our society, greed for money too.
Whatever evil politics have spawned, I can take comfort of the fact that it has ended Erap’s misrule.
It’s different though if you view Erap as a good President, in which case, we should refrain from discussing the ideals of “democratic institutions”, and instead focus our own personal bias against GMA and our own canine sympathy for Erap.
ang mga paboritong salita ng kapitbahay kong lassenggo na kapag nadadampian lang ng kaunti ng alak ang kanyang lalamunan…
“madaling maging tao, mahirap magpakatao”…
” ang salita ay binubuo ng simuno at panag-uri”…
“buti pa ang pera may tao, ang tao walang pera”…
” mabuti pa ang siopao may papel, ako walang papel”…
” ang katotohanan ay nasa lahat ng anggulo”…
kung pinag-uusapan si erap di mawawala ang kalokohan o pagpapatawa….
pero sa ganang akin, ang post na ito ay isang side of the truth,ikanga ng lassenggo kong kapitbahay…ang katotohanan ay nakikita sa lahat ng anggulo…sa pagkakaalam ko…aking durugtungan ang sinabi ni “J”…kung hindi ako nagkakamali…ginagawaan ng paraan ni Erap na maging legal ang Jueteng sa pamamagitan ng BINGO 2-Ball…yun nga lang si Atong Ang ang ginawa niyang chairman…kaya ayun…si Chavit nagalit kay Erap…kung si Chavit ang ginawang Chairman…may kakanta ba sa Jueteng…papaano naman ang mga General at Congressman na mawawalan ng kotong…kaya ayun…EDSA Dos na…so after Edsa Dos…naging Jueteng CZAR si Chavit…ang Utol niya naging Chairman ng PAGCOR bago si Genuino…you see…yan ang interes na malaki sa mga pumalit kay ERAP…ang kita sa Jueteng. Hanggang ngayon…illegal pa din ang Jueteng…kung legal ba yan…may lagayan ba magaganap?…WALA…kung natuloy ba ang BINGO 2Ball…may lilitaw bang Sandra CAM?…tatakbo bang Governador si Fr. Panlilio ng Pampanga…ang daming nauto ni Chavit tsk tsk tsk…hayyy.
Hhmmm. I’m sure why some commenters say this piece is clueless, contradictory, or circuitous. :)
The author’s general premise is right. Depending on where you are in the political fence, ERAP is Echo the Rage and Angst of Pinoys to his masa supporters/anti-GMA crowd. Or, ERAP is Every Racket and Plunder to EDSA Dos supporters. Or, ERAP is Extra Rah-rah for Aspiring Presidents to prexy wannabes.
Indeed, he’s the man. The man for all reasons: to admire, to hate, or to use.
Once a thief always a thief. It would be so sad is out of 90 million Filipinos, only Erap would be able to unite the Filipinos behind an opposition who can transform the government. I think we have to expect/raise a higher standard than this for a presidential candidate. Unless you are right Bong that Filipinos are really lazy bozos and impressionable bobos
Rosa:
The masa would say “they are all thieves anyway, the difference being, erap was the thief who got caught.”
Since the A and B and C vote for their own thieves, why shouldn’t we, the DE, be able to vote for our own thieves? Same thieves anyway.
Still a dumb idea.
you’ve got it right Rosa.
bongV there is big difference between understanding the sentiments of the unwashed and fawming at their sentiments. your article is an outright endorsement of ERAP and your contrary protestation would not hide it unless you do not know your english.
please read again your post, mark anthony – so you will find out the peroration is not entirely objective and it is definitely pro-Julius.
but you are entitled to it. just don’t feign pandering with claim of objectivity.
jcc:
i’ll put it this way – i agree to disagree with you.
the kind of reaction you are eliciting against the views of the DE crowd which idolizes Erap, is exactly the kind of reaction I want to provoke, or to be be more understated, a reaction that was expected :lol:
however, you miss the point – my contempt has got nothing to do with the fact that there are a lot of people out there who still favor Erap favorably – rightly or wrongly. that I hold such view as misguided is quite clear.
as to pandering – that’s your interpretation – but it’s not mine, and it’s not my chip on the shoulder either.
Rosa,
Please let us not discount the possibility that Erap had a change of heart. After years of detention or house arrest, maybe he has come to realize his calling or mission, i.e. to make a difference in this life.
As what the Michael Jackson sung:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQXpUpBJnOc
The future of the Philippines is at stake. We can not afford to take a chance on one who has not given respect and dignity to the highest office of the land. If he wants to redeem himself, let him volunteer for the church or the salvation army but not where he represents the Filipino people.
If only Filipinos would have the same point of view as Rosa, imagine how great the country will be.
jcc,
I come from a very poor family way back in Phil. My father was leadman in the mines and one day found two sacks or gold in an abandoned tunnel. He returned it and everyone called him garbage (he got $400 reward which was a huge amount at that time). He had a lot of chances to enrich himself because of his position but he always said he will not feed his family with stolen goods. My father was not well-educated but he always was to me a very noble man. How I wish that our politicians exhibit this trait of incorruptibility, how progressive our country would be.
Rosa,
We lost our sense of morality and and dignity, its no wonder why are are in this mess.
Rosa,
I see nobility a lot in the Philippines. It gets hidden under the splatter of self-servers and business of getting about with family and life, but I rather suspect there is a lot more of your father here than many know.
Joe
Yes Joe, I heard of one government official who wanted to eradicate Jueteng in his area in the north. He was a very honest man but his reward for trying to stop illegal gambling was to be re-assigned to a rebel-infested area in Mindanao. One reason of corruption/whistleblowing avoidance is people are afraid of reprisals if found out by their superiors who have a say and control of their jobs.
Hi Bong,
Just a query so I don’t misunderstand you.
In a previous thread you called Estrada an IDIOT.
How does he fit on the ‘Road of Redemption’?
precisely my point ding.
Or why did he not use the photo of erap provided by manoling morato where erap was inside a casino drunk and playing cards?
Or why was there an honor getting “house arrested” for plunder and compare his inconvenience with the inconvenience of a distinguished, Aung San Suu Kyi of Burma?
Why is there now a sudden respect for the sentiments of the “unwashed” who are pro-Erap while months ago we have only contempt and disdain over the same group of people because they were hypnotized by the Taliban-Catholic Church?
your contempt is irrelevant to the numbers who think about it otherwise.
“we” can all be in Teheran, but if, the greater rural population think Erap is all good, the Basij will make pudding out of your Englitshceze arse … :lol:
“we” can have all the disdain and contempt – but “they” don’t give a hoot
on the contrary bongV you were the one contemptous of the “unwashed” because they can easily be misled by the tyranic Catholic Church. just go back on your previous POVs on the Church and their influence over the “unwashed” which was all over this blog site few months ago.
but now you suddenly become receptive of the sentiments of the “unwashed” that are pro-Erap.
benign0 always say that it is not in the number but the quality of the number. correct POV is never measured by the number you have racked on that particular POV. Jesus Christ himself lost the POV of the multitude, but he was correct right on that day and the days forward.
btw, if you have to bring up my case, please care to read my issue there before you bring it up because that will only highlight your pretentious claim of expertise on every subject.
receptiveness does not mean contempt has been diminished. it is not a mutually exclusive proposition.
nor does describing the sentiment mean that the contempt has been diminished. the sentiment is being described – it is what it is.
come to think out of it – what are you being contemptuous about if you have not defined that which you hold in contempt.
contempt without cause? parang james dean :lol:
I see Product A. I see Product B. I prefer A. I don’t like Product B. But there are other people who like Product B. I would like to understand why other people like Product B and try to articulate the perceptions about product B. By doing so, my preference for Product A has changed? My beach bum logic disagrees.
as to your issues with pretentiousness, that is your perception and you are entitled to what your brain’s neural transmitters make out of the external stimuli flowing through your eyes.
ding,
my POV is just one POV – compare it to a larger number of voices who does not share my POV, your POV, or JCC’s POV – that’s three POVS vs the larger number of peope who think otherwise, J for instance
the point is – like any battle for the hearts and minds. there are various PoVs: identify the camps, understand the position of different camps – emphathize, understand the motivations for doing so. and from that survey of the political terrain, of the balance of forces – craft the current state, identify the future state, and come up with an action that transforms the current state to the better future state. no emotions involved, just a pragmatic understanding of what makes the electorate choose as they currently do, figure out how to take them to the water, and perhaps, they just might drink the water.
the honor is – in a country where crooks go scot-free, this crook served time.
consider this, one is so nanggagalaiti of the IBP leadership; well, who is outside the IBP kulambo now? one POV with a book? he can go nanggagalaiti till the cows come home, but the greater number of IBP folks would think otherwise and even consider his POV, naive and dismiss him with a shrug :lol: does this mean his view is wrong? on the contrary, he could very well be standing on a bedrock of principles which are cast in black and white. we can go Emo and rage – the fact remains – his colleagues differ (rightly or wrongly), in overwhelming numbers.
Okidoki.
my post awaiting moderation!!!! are we back where we were before?