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	<title>Comments on: The Mindanao saga continues</title>
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		<title>By: Manuel L. Quezon III</title>
		<link>http://filipinovoices.com/the-mindanao-saga-continues/comment-page-1#comment-5176</link>
		<dc:creator>Manuel L. Quezon III</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 05:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] we must assume, sincerely participated in the process out of the belief it offers a way forward. Abe Margallo also agrees the Supreme Court may have been out of bounds in issuing the TRO vs. the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] we must assume, sincerely participated in the process out of the belief it offers a way forward. Abe Margallo also agrees the Supreme Court may have been out of bounds in issuing the TRO vs. the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Current &#187; The march of folly in Mindanao</title>
		<link>http://filipinovoices.com/the-mindanao-saga-continues/comment-page-1#comment-5174</link>
		<dc:creator>Current &#187; The march of folly in Mindanao</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 05:24:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] we must assume, sincerely participated in the process out of the belief it offers a way forward. Abe Margallo also agrees the Supreme Court may have been out of bounds in issuing the TRO vs. the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] we must assume, sincerely participated in the process out of the belief it offers a way forward. Abe Margallo also agrees the Supreme Court may have been out of bounds in issuing the TRO vs. the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: cvj</title>
		<link>http://filipinovoices.com/the-mindanao-saga-continues/comment-page-1#comment-5172</link>
		<dc:creator>cvj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 04:34:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.filipinovoices.com/?p=468#comment-5172</guid>
		<description>Bencard, i think we&#039;re all agreed (i.e. DJB, you, me) that, as per the US Declaration of Independence, there is such a thing as a &lt;i&gt;&#039;right to rebellion&#039;&lt;/i&gt; which are subject to certain qualifications.  Such right is therefore &lt;i&gt;extra-constitutional&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;extra-legal&lt;/i&gt;. Where we  disagree is on whether such qualifications apply to the present case (i.e. the Moro rebellion) although i suspect that our positions are actually closer than our mutual animosities would let on.

Abe, to me it depends on what we decentralize and what we keep central.  I support the 75% (center)-25%(region) resource extraction arrangement and i believe that the government should unilaterally implement it across all regions as this does not require Charter Change.  

Within each federal state, i prefer that the City Mayor (of the state&#039;s premiere city) should also be the state governor since i think that, from a development standpoint, a relationship of center-periphery between urban and rural areas should be maintained.  The last thing we would want to happen is intra-federal state conflict between the city dwellers and rural folk.  

I believe though that there should still be direct national elections for head of government as well as election of a legislature via proportional representation. (I also agree with Manolo that there should be two chambers although i&#039;m willing to allow the governors to be the second chamber.)  The military (armed forces &amp; national guard) and the judiciary should  should also be centralized.  All this is to ensure that feudal arrangements don&#039;t reassert itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bencard, i think we&#8217;re all agreed (i.e. DJB, you, me) that, as per the US Declaration of Independence, there is such a thing as a <i>&#8216;right to rebellion&#8217;</i> which are subject to certain qualifications.  Such right is therefore <i>extra-constitutional</i> and <i>extra-legal</i>. Where we  disagree is on whether such qualifications apply to the present case (i.e. the Moro rebellion) although i suspect that our positions are actually closer than our mutual animosities would let on.</p>
<p>Abe, to me it depends on what we decentralize and what we keep central.  I support the 75% (center)-25%(region) resource extraction arrangement and i believe that the government should unilaterally implement it across all regions as this does not require Charter Change.  </p>
<p>Within each federal state, i prefer that the City Mayor (of the state&#8217;s premiere city) should also be the state governor since i think that, from a development standpoint, a relationship of center-periphery between urban and rural areas should be maintained.  The last thing we would want to happen is intra-federal state conflict between the city dwellers and rural folk.  </p>
<p>I believe though that there should still be direct national elections for head of government as well as election of a legislature via proportional representation. (I also agree with Manolo that there should be two chambers although i&#8217;m willing to allow the governors to be the second chamber.)  The military (armed forces &amp; national guard) and the judiciary should  should also be centralized.  All this is to ensure that feudal arrangements don&#8217;t reassert itself.</p>
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		<title>By: Abe N. Margallo</title>
		<link>http://filipinovoices.com/the-mindanao-saga-continues/comment-page-1#comment-5170</link>
		<dc:creator>Abe N. Margallo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 03:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.filipinovoices.com/?p=468#comment-5170</guid>
		<description>“Federalism is merely the newest ploy of the administration to try and amend the Charter.” – DJB

In fairness to GMA, this “ploy” should be taken as  plainly speculative, to say the very least. GMA’s “all-out peace policy” in Mindanao beginning with the Tripoli Agreement of 2001 had been launched way before she was caught on tape saying Hello to Garci.  

Hence, I&#039;ll ask again: Federalism, anyone ...if GMA is constitutionally barred from gunning for another term, either as Pres or PM?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Federalism is merely the newest ploy of the administration to try and amend the Charter.” – DJB</p>
<p>In fairness to GMA, this “ploy” should be taken as  plainly speculative, to say the very least. GMA’s “all-out peace policy” in Mindanao beginning with the Tripoli Agreement of 2001 had been launched way before she was caught on tape saying Hello to Garci.  </p>
<p>Hence, I&#8217;ll ask again: Federalism, anyone &#8230;if GMA is constitutionally barred from gunning for another term, either as Pres or PM?</p>
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		<title>By: Jeg</title>
		<link>http://filipinovoices.com/the-mindanao-saga-continues/comment-page-1#comment-5164</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 01:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.filipinovoices.com/?p=468#comment-5164</guid>
		<description>cocoy: &lt;i&gt;From the second hand sources that i’ve been hearing even Muslims are against this deal. From what i gather MILF does not represent the Muslim community.&lt;/i&gt;

If so let the people decide. Let them reject the MILF in a plebiscite. In the meantime, let&#039;s treat the south like Filipinos. Get the armies of the north out of there. Move them to guard the coasts against foreign enemies like theyre supposed to do. Then MILF can disarm. In the meantime, train the cops and the NBI in anti-terror skills. 

Launching tanks, artillery, and airstrikes against Filipinos? Without the approval of Congress? Ridiculous and immoral. At least in DJB&#039;s example, Abe Lincoln asked Congress for permission to wage war on the south.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cocoy: <i>From the second hand sources that i’ve been hearing even Muslims are against this deal. From what i gather MILF does not represent the Muslim community.</i></p>
<p>If so let the people decide. Let them reject the MILF in a plebiscite. In the meantime, let&#8217;s treat the south like Filipinos. Get the armies of the north out of there. Move them to guard the coasts against foreign enemies like theyre supposed to do. Then MILF can disarm. In the meantime, train the cops and the NBI in anti-terror skills. </p>
<p>Launching tanks, artillery, and airstrikes against Filipinos? Without the approval of Congress? Ridiculous and immoral. At least in DJB&#8217;s example, Abe Lincoln asked Congress for permission to wage war on the south.</p>
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		<title>By: Bencard</title>
		<link>http://filipinovoices.com/the-mindanao-saga-continues/comment-page-1#comment-5150</link>
		<dc:creator>Bencard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:03:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.filipinovoices.com/?p=468#comment-5150</guid>
		<description>the &quot;right to rebellion&quot; recognized in the u.s. declaration of independence is a qualified one, with a number of preconditions for its exercise. foremost of this is reasonability of its cause, e.g., serious and repeated violation of the people&#039;s right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness; despotism; withdrawal of consent by the governed (not just by a fraction thereof).

i don&#039;t see these preconditions present in the milf &quot;rebellion&quot;, certainly not in its desire to have its own territorial sphere of power by a dubious claim to an &quot;ancestral domain&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the &#8220;right to rebellion&#8221; recognized in the u.s. declaration of independence is a qualified one, with a number of preconditions for its exercise. foremost of this is reasonability of its cause, e.g., serious and repeated violation of the people&#8217;s right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness; despotism; withdrawal of consent by the governed (not just by a fraction thereof).</p>
<p>i don&#8217;t see these preconditions present in the milf &#8220;rebellion&#8221;, certainly not in its desire to have its own territorial sphere of power by a dubious claim to an &#8220;ancestral domain&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: cvj</title>
		<link>http://filipinovoices.com/the-mindanao-saga-continues/comment-page-1#comment-5141</link>
		<dc:creator>cvj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 15:13:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.filipinovoices.com/?p=468#comment-5141</guid>
		<description>the above should read &quot;...given that the MILF &lt;i&gt;rebellion&lt;/i&gt; can trace its roots...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the above should read &#8220;&#8230;given that the MILF <i>rebellion</i> can trace its roots&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: cvj</title>
		<link>http://filipinovoices.com/the-mindanao-saga-continues/comment-page-1#comment-5140</link>
		<dc:creator>cvj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 15:12:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.filipinovoices.com/?p=468#comment-5140</guid>
		<description>DJB, my comment (at 11:46 am) was a direct response to your question:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Is secession a “right” that can be gained by plebiscite under the Constitution (either US or ours?)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The US Declaration of Independence makes clear that rebellion is a right, but it is an &lt;i&gt;extra-constitutional&lt;/i&gt; right. So the answer to the question you posed is &lt;b&gt;no&lt;/b&gt; which puts us on the same side of the issue.  

I don&#039;t know why you find the comparison with 1776 &#039;atrocious&#039; given that the MILF can trace its roots to the spirit of 1776.  You and I may believe they are wrong but so did the Royalists during the time of Washington and Jefferson. Try to look at things more objectively.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DJB, my comment (at 11:46 am) was a direct response to your question:</p>
<blockquote><p>Is secession a “right” that can be gained by plebiscite under the Constitution (either US or ours?)</p></blockquote>
<p>The US Declaration of Independence makes clear that rebellion is a right, but it is an <i>extra-constitutional</i> right. So the answer to the question you posed is <b>no</b> which puts us on the same side of the issue.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know why you find the comparison with 1776 &#8216;atrocious&#8217; given that the MILF can trace its roots to the spirit of 1776.  You and I may believe they are wrong but so did the Royalists during the time of Washington and Jefferson. Try to look at things more objectively.</p>
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		<title>By: DJB Rizalist</title>
		<link>http://filipinovoices.com/the-mindanao-saga-continues/comment-page-1#comment-5137</link>
		<dc:creator>DJB Rizalist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 14:37:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.filipinovoices.com/?p=468#comment-5137</guid>
		<description>cvj,

I was waiting for this!

Those sacred words invented Nationalism, Anti-colonialism and anti-imperialism all in one grand year: 1776. But Great Britain was not obligated to change its laws, its charters, or its mind about the Colonies. Rather the Americans took matters into their own hands, broke the bands that tied them to Britain and created their own destiny.  They didn&#039;t negotiate for it with the King. They threw his tea out into Boston Harbor instead.

Let the Moros do that and not pretend with cutesie pie &quot;done deals&quot; and &quot;peace negotiations&quot;. 

That is, if they can get the Moros to back them up enough to make those sacred words apply to them, just as the American Revolutionaries had the people behind them. If they have failed it is not our fault. Maybe the Bangsamoro, as I suspect, don&#039;t support the MILF, and that is why they have not won.  Let&#039;s not confound the two, because they ain&#039;t. The MILF is not the bangsamoro people. 

I am not impressed with the fact that they&#039;ve been fighting for so long, because everybody knows that guerillas can sustain a war indefinitely with only 5 to 10% support. In fact if it has taken this long, it&#039;s proof they don&#039;t have popular support.  But then we already know that about the MILF.  

The comparison to 1776 is atrocious and flippant. 

Now, I know you like to play word games, cvj but I hope you do get the point: it&#039;s same kind of cuteness we get from the MILF.

Secession and revolution are not absolute human rights.  You actually have to have Justice and the people on your side in order to win. Your cause has to be &quot;right&quot;--independent of whether those you are tied to agree or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cvj,</p>
<p>I was waiting for this!</p>
<p>Those sacred words invented Nationalism, Anti-colonialism and anti-imperialism all in one grand year: 1776. But Great Britain was not obligated to change its laws, its charters, or its mind about the Colonies. Rather the Americans took matters into their own hands, broke the bands that tied them to Britain and created their own destiny.  They didn&#8217;t negotiate for it with the King. They threw his tea out into Boston Harbor instead.</p>
<p>Let the Moros do that and not pretend with cutesie pie &#8220;done deals&#8221; and &#8220;peace negotiations&#8221;. </p>
<p>That is, if they can get the Moros to back them up enough to make those sacred words apply to them, just as the American Revolutionaries had the people behind them. If they have failed it is not our fault. Maybe the Bangsamoro, as I suspect, don&#8217;t support the MILF, and that is why they have not won.  Let&#8217;s not confound the two, because they ain&#8217;t. The MILF is not the bangsamoro people. </p>
<p>I am not impressed with the fact that they&#8217;ve been fighting for so long, because everybody knows that guerillas can sustain a war indefinitely with only 5 to 10% support. In fact if it has taken this long, it&#8217;s proof they don&#8217;t have popular support.  But then we already know that about the MILF.  </p>
<p>The comparison to 1776 is atrocious and flippant. </p>
<p>Now, I know you like to play word games, cvj but I hope you do get the point: it&#8217;s same kind of cuteness we get from the MILF.</p>
<p>Secession and revolution are not absolute human rights.  You actually have to have Justice and the people on your side in order to win. Your cause has to be &#8220;right&#8221;&#8211;independent of whether those you are tied to agree or not.</p>
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		<title>By: cocoy</title>
		<link>http://filipinovoices.com/the-mindanao-saga-continues/comment-page-1#comment-5130</link>
		<dc:creator>cocoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 12:09:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.filipinovoices.com/?p=468#comment-5130</guid>
		<description>Abe, this is off topic to the issue of mindanao) but i&#039;d like to point this out 
&lt;blockquote&gt;Finally, let me state that the unitary system has failed our nation for more than a century already. Isn’t it time to experiment on something new? Those who are allergic to a GMA holdover beyond 2010, would you change your mind (that is, go for federalism) if in a charter change initiative, the incumbent president is specifically constitutionally barred from running for president or prime minister under the new charter?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
posted about this very lament several times in the past and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.filipinovoices.com/decentralize-tomorrow&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; recently just a few days ago.

Jeg, i remember famous words: &quot;Give me liberty or give me death&quot;. that said, From the second hand sources that i&#039;ve been hearing even Muslims are against this deal. From what i gather MILF does not represent the Muslim community.

Also what can MILF offer the Muslim community of Mindanao that they don&#039;t already enjoy? Anyone can trade with everybody. no one is locking them up. no one says this country is just for Tagalogs or Cebuanos. Muslims are free to worship. They are free to trade, to write to laugh. Everyone is free to say, do and trade for years. will MILF grant them the same freedom? From where i sit it is the in fighting in mindanao that is causing such problems as to prevent that island from fully being develop.

i agree w/DJB: 
&lt;blockquote&gt;After a “Final Peace Agreement” was signed in 1996, I claim that the MILF insurgency was immoral and unjustified. They should lay down their arms and take up the ARMM more seriously and make that idea work first.
What is it really about a neo-sultanate that would improve substantially upon the ARMM and not a create a new malignancy in the body politic?
All this fiddling around with the Constitution is a cop-out that seeks to blame the “system” for the failures of politicians and warlords. It’s a game lawyers and academicians play all the time, but read the lips of the people: they don’t want Bangsamorostan!&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Abe, this is off topic to the issue of mindanao) but i&#8217;d like to point this out </p>
<blockquote><p>Finally, let me state that the unitary system has failed our nation for more than a century already. Isn’t it time to experiment on something new? Those who are allergic to a GMA holdover beyond 2010, would you change your mind (that is, go for federalism) if in a charter change initiative, the incumbent president is specifically constitutionally barred from running for president or prime minister under the new charter?</p></blockquote>
<p>posted about this very lament several times in the past and <a href="http://www.filipinovoices.com/decentralize-tomorrow" rel="nofollow">here</a> recently just a few days ago.</p>
<p>Jeg, i remember famous words: &#8220;Give me liberty or give me death&#8221;. that said, From the second hand sources that i&#8217;ve been hearing even Muslims are against this deal. From what i gather MILF does not represent the Muslim community.</p>
<p>Also what can MILF offer the Muslim community of Mindanao that they don&#8217;t already enjoy? Anyone can trade with everybody. no one is locking them up. no one says this country is just for Tagalogs or Cebuanos. Muslims are free to worship. They are free to trade, to write to laugh. Everyone is free to say, do and trade for years. will MILF grant them the same freedom? From where i sit it is the in fighting in mindanao that is causing such problems as to prevent that island from fully being develop.</p>
<p>i agree w/DJB: </p>
<blockquote><p>After a “Final Peace Agreement” was signed in 1996, I claim that the MILF insurgency was immoral and unjustified. They should lay down their arms and take up the ARMM more seriously and make that idea work first.<br />
What is it really about a neo-sultanate that would improve substantially upon the ARMM and not a create a new malignancy in the body politic?<br />
All this fiddling around with the Constitution is a cop-out that seeks to blame the “system” for the failures of politicians and warlords. It’s a game lawyers and academicians play all the time, but read the lips of the people: they don’t want Bangsamorostan!</p></blockquote>
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