I recently got to some really serious thinking after FilipinoVoices.com reader Liam proposed in a recent comment that I “write something positive for a change”. Indeed, I’ve for some reason been always seen as someone obsessed with “negativity”, specifically when it comes to the Philippines and Filipinos. To be fair to moi however, I’ve never really seen my work as coming across as “negative”. That’s because all I see in what I write is quite simply The Truth. Whether what I write is “negative” or “positive” has for me always been beside the point. After all, The Truth does not necessarily distinguish the positive from the negative.
But I do understand where Liam is coming from. My writing does tend to put Filipinos in a “negative” light in the sense that it highlights the lack of substance behind any favourable spin put on The Filipino Condition and undermines any effort to propagate any perceptions that are outcomes of said spin. Much of the “hope” that Filipinos harbour that the Philippines will someday be a prosperous nation rests on such spin, so I could understand why people would be so emotionally invested in it as to balk at using The Truth as a basis for moving forward.
As blogger BongV emphasises in his seminal piece Is the Philippines Ready for “Change”?…
The AS-IS influences the TO-BE. By identifying the diffferences beween the two models, a set of changes that need to be enacted in sequence or parallel can be defined and allows the creation of a transition plan. Note that there can be multiple AS-IS and/or multiple TO-BE models depending on the model framework or methodology used.
The AS-IS model enables diagnosis of the underperforming systems, procedures, and organizations. A TO-BE model is generated after designing the improvements and removing the inefficiencies in the AS-IS model. The transition plan provides a mechanism for effecting the change from the AS-IS to the TO-BE model, with due attention given to resistance to change. Modeling the TO-BE state makes the benfits very clear to the stakeholders of the system.
… it is important to clearly understand the As-Is of Philippines society. What is our current condition?. Come up with a flawed or, worse, deluded notion of where we are coming from and the route that we chart in our effort to transition to the To-Be will be flawed as well. The last 50 years of our history is a testament to our society’s stubborn navigation of such flawed routes. This is because while there has always been an abundance of “analysis” around a certain aspect of our society’s As-Is, very little light has been shed on some fundamental properties of Philippine society. When explored at such fundamental levels, the traditional domains of “analysis” that our traditional, more conventional “experts” have become comfy with begin to come across as mere quibbling around symptoms.
As such;
Our regard for what it means to come up with something “positive” about the Philippines speaks volumes about our wherewithal to change as a people.
Therefore, the responsible thing to do when requested to probe the proverbial haystack of Filipino culturally-ingrained dysfunction with the aim of finding that needle of positive light is to come up with criteria. They should be of the kind that mitigates that feel-good delusion associated with baseless positivism by constraining the exploration to what is real.
Thus when we set out in our search for some “positive” topics to explore, we should make sure that…
:D It has to be something about an achievement that can be attributed to Filipinos as a people (none of this citing Manny Pacquiao or Lea Salonga as “evidence” of Pinoy achievement crap, please);
:D It has to be about an aspect of Filipinos as a people that provides reasonably substantiable evidence of “hope” that a brighter future is potentially within our sights; or,
:D It has to be about something being done fundamentally differently that can be cited as possible evidence of a future that is different from the groundhog-day-like history of the Philippines in the last 50 years;
… or any combination of the above three.
Quite a reasonable set of criteria, isn’t it?
An example of a false positivism is this whole “debate” around which president we will end up with after 2010 Fiesta Election. It seems that to many it is falsely simple (in contrast with being simple, really): If their candidate wins, everyone will live happily ever after.
Right.
After decades of pinning our aspirations on this or that politician, this or that “revolution”, and this or that “hero”, there is an abundance of proof that political solutions simply don’t cut it.
The day we have truly “arrived” as a people is the day when we are known to the world not for our politics but for what real value we collectively add sustainably to human civilisation. When this value we contribute is specific and recognised objectively, it becomes easy to be “positive”. That’s because with real achievement and contributions that are of real value, a more mature and understated pride becomes part and parcel of our nature as a people, society, and nation.
For now I’m open to ideas on “positive” topics to write about — subject of course to the above three criteria.
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BongV,
Even if that were true, that is a rebuttal or clarification that Benigno can’t afford himself without admitting that he didn’t follow his Japanese engineering advice of “do it right the first time”. He should have said so in his book or his challenge when he came out with them.
You mean like how Asian bowlers are going to go to Rafael Nepomuceno for training?
I don’t question that you know the message that you posted but that still doesn’t negate the fact you didn’t know your own post.
Likely is that it is not. But you imply that what Lea went through even up to at least being a freshman in ADMU is a good thing. And I don’t question that. And that good thing is happening in the Philippines.
In an article by Orion Perez Dumdum (though I might have reservations for some issues) that was endorsed by Benigno; it is implied there that it is necessary in enlightenment to update his/her knowledge in the fields in which he/she has achieved a degree of expertise. (Something Lea is doing wherever/whomever she can get it)
Yet what do you do? You claim that her character is not shared by majority of Filipinos.
So instead of advocating Filipinos to emulate “her way” to success in whatever fitting endeavor as hope for a brighter future; you go somewhere else.
The right/correct/ideal/etc… way to celebrate in Lea’s success is to advocate Filipinos to follow the way she did it. And you are not doing it.
You are not even advocating that the kind of education or training (or even just similar to it) that Lea went through while still here in the Philippines be fanned out to the rest.
I would say that Lea met Gerard as soon as he was born.
The issue is of Filipinos working their ass off anywhere they happen to be.
That is irrelevant. The Americans aren’t running Subic now. The fact is that Filipinos are able to enforce such rules.
And you didn’t even ask nicely.
You claimed that it is the underlying cultural superstructure which gives rise to the system that needs to change. And in support of that you posted the abstract of an article where you can’t even define what “civic culture” the article was referring to.
Why should anyone shell out their own money for something you should be proving? Why should anyone even look in your new article when whatever civic culture referred in one might not be the same in the other? You didn’t even give any assurance that they were talking about the same thing. Even their authors are different.
And there’s that “dude” thing again. Are you in the down under too?
He/she won’t be seeing children carrying a tin can containing balut to sell anywhere. As far as I know, the container is a basket.
But then at least empathize with Benigno because he endorsed Nick Joaquin’s thinking on that which makes him one of those Filipinos who think like that.
It’s not as if its bugging me but I do have issues with Benigno’s book.
The issues were presented to him and he was given more than enough chance to contradict/refute/etc…. them. In the end he chose to challenge one issue and it didn’t even end well for him on that. Admission by silence, validated by default, etc… Call it what you will but the fact is that even Benigno chose not to put up a defense on much of the issues presented.
The issues are here- http://filipinovoices.com/encapsulating-the-philippine-national-debate/comment-page-1#comment-58961
Benigno,
That you are still asking this to anyone just shows that you are still full of what someone said you are full of.
Justice, cheers! benignO’s with us so long we’re not rattled by him anymore.
Careful careful Mr. justice lague, I recall this response of mine to your comment is the last one that you failed to respond to, and I quote:
Trouble with you, dude is that you introduce new assertions without first resolving the previous fallacies in your “arguments” that I highlight for you.
But you do get an “A” for your effort. :D
Ateneo curriculum is patterned after Georgetown U – its American. it is a good thing that has happened since the time of rizal, gadzooks.
Why didn’t Georgetown U pattern its curriculum from say Univ of Manila? :lol:
Citation by an author and not knowing the post are two different bananas. Moreover, I have already cited the author, don’t ask me questions to cite the author again – read the post again.
In case you didn’t notice – Lea left – in her quest to better herself – she went somewhere else :lol:
There’s work hard – and there’s work smart – that’s a bigger issue. You can work your ass hard all day long on stuff with low returns – by the time you get 60 your still light years away from your pension plan!!! :lol:
Yeah, enforcing those rules made it happen because the police and leaders of Subic are highly influenced by American culture (NOT Filipino) –
in areas where Filipino culture dominates, I will bet my last sentimo – the traffic will be just like Recto or blumentritt or Avenida or Escolta :lol:
Do your homework dude, if the topic interests you that much, read on it – you want to be spoonfed like a Pinoy student??? :lol:
and I disagree that “kahusayan” is the tagalog word for efficiency – “kahusayan” is craftsmanship NOT efficiency – I BEG TO DISAGREE :lol:
It’s simple, really™, Cheeky Chic. When you say you are constantly resisting that sickening feeling you feel when you read my brilliant book, it shows that you are already halfway to stepping up to the challenge of confronting The Truth in all its non-pretty (and often “sickening”) glory.
Don’t penalise yourself for this struggle you are experiencing in your efforts at confronting The Truth, and consider this instead:
I find that the most useful and life-altering information tends to be those that are the most confronting.
Would you rely on your own mother for a frank and honest assessment of yourself?
Why settle for the feel-good poetry of traditional “experts” (and some “reporters” here) when all they do is assure the Vacuous Mind that they are all “victims” in a grand conspiracy instigated by the rich and powerful to keep them poor and obedient, when you can take charge and confront what is real and truly UNDERSTAND what being a winner (or one who is on his/her way there) truly is all about?
No one is confronted by your Truth as it is already there. What you wrote or has written will not alter anyone’s life, kasi some people are living their own reality. What can you do to change it? In the real sense and in a positive action.
All I can say is lighten up a little tiny teeny weeny bit. Besides, huwag mo munang lunokin mga words mo, I mean you are 40 years old. What is the retirement age in Australia? You might feel like going home sa Pilipinas. We all know how expensive it is to stay in a rest home downunder, over a $1,000AUD a week. I-matik-matiks mo nga in weekly tawsand pesos. But 40 is quite a young age to be discontented, besides you are in Australia. You must have good life there. Try to see the good things in life, as it reflects.
See, this is what I am talking about sensibilities. My mother was dead years ago, and no doubt she will tell me the truth, no doubt that is where I get my frankness from. So, huwag mo nang isama nanay ko.
Smile Again. As I said “Smile the world is round like a smiley!(TM yan and copyrighted!)”. I rest my book case and take it easy. I’m not trying to give you a hard time. You can blame the others… not me..LOL! Renata be good to Benign. LOL again.
Re what you said:
Yet this is what you wrote earlier:
So if you say no one is “confronted” by what I write, why then would my writing “create enemies”?
Let me speakingese in my Tagalogish, as in “andiyan na!oh ano pa ang gusto mong gawin?”. It is a normal re-action. It is more a like adding more salt to a wound. It is already too hapdi – pina-aray mo pa. Plain and simple aray! Yon lang Sir Benign. Can I go back to work now? Tadah! and to da loo! LOL!
Yes, Cheeky Chic, andiyan na nga (“it’s already there”), but then to ask “ano pa ang gusto mong gavin?” kinda highlights an even darker reality about Da Pinoy Condition:
We lack the capacity to imagine ALTERNATIVES to the sad realities we are confronted with.
Knowing and understanding the reality is only the First Step. How that knowledge and understanding is used is what separates the men from the boys.
And that is what is simple, really™. ;)
My gid… dont give yourself a hardtime thinking of other people’s problem. Ya cant save the world and the country. It is really up to those people kung gusto nilang umahon. Was just being cheeky when I asked the second question – kasi gutom is me!
Can I put a period here. You win Emperor B! Have a break.
What makes you think I was trying to “save the world and the country”? :D
wow, i forgot about this thread… buhay pa to? ang daming comments!
What happened 2 your 3 criteria b0?
can we say that we can revise the first criteria as being too vague? that individual people can be an achievement by a country?
whats funny is that people are actually arguing that by leaving the country to work with foreigners, that person cannot be an achievement by the country.
That DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. i’m shocked that people have actually made that argument.
of course talented people may go out of the country. thats obvious. that doesn’t make them less filipino. (i would hope BongV to understand this last point)
GabbyD:
if by “filipino” you refer to my citizenship, I am filipino.
if by “filipino” you refer to my heritage as a former colonial subject of Spain – that’s debatable as I am very much a Moro inasmuch as I am also an Indio. Though having grown up in Mindanao, I take pride in my kick-ass Moro roots.
if by “filipino” you refer to my “world view” or “mind set”, given the world view that prevails in the Philippines today – within the context of “the homeland Pinoy” and the “global pinoy”, – I don’t share the “homeland pinoys” world view – fact is I have seen those views lived out without much success for the Philippines, and therefore I am contemptuous and disagreement with the prevailing views though I try to be as civil as I can for discussion and civility’s sake.
what’s being argued is that the success of these individual were made possible only after refining their skills in another country.
Which goes without saying, their skills may have been tops in the country but kulelat in the international community. you know how the PBA stars drag their weight around in the Pinas, but wind up as bench warmers and water boys in the NBA :lol:
Or Eric Buhain dominating the Philippine swimming circuit and South east Asian Circuit – but not even making a whimper in the Summer Olympics.
Or a Sharon Cuneta or Pops Fernandez who warms the jolog crowds – but unheard of in Broadway as is.
Now, it would have been something about the country, if say like Cuba the Philippines has a comprehensive sports program that keeps producing baseball stars as a rule and not as an exception. Or the Latin American soccer programs that churn out soccer superstars and have the European soccer clubs lining up at their doorsteps.
In contrast, the Philippines sent a little league baseball team, supposedly nanalo nga, over-aged naman yung mga players. What impression did that leave – Filipinos ARE CHEATERS! :lol:
no, i meant attachment to the philippines. you do care about the philippines, right?
GabbyD:
I am ambivalent about caring for a place where people don’t exert the effort of taking care of themselves.
The areas where I can see people making an effort to help themselves and have a civic-minded culture – I care.
The areas where people still engage in the poor-me-blame-blame-big-bad-government and would rather play victim instead of taking personal accountability – I wouldn’t give it a second look – they can all harden there :lol:
oh, i thought u cared, after i read your comment in another post about feeling strongly about philippine education and students.
so you are commenting about philippine affairs for reasons similar to B0? because you have ideas and want to write about them?
oh, i thought u cared, after i read your comment in another post about feeling strongly about philippine education and students.
these students were in areas that exercised initiative and reached out – and for those types of students and communities, i care.
there are communities that don’t ask for fish, but ask they be taught how to fish – this are the communities in the philippines that I care for.
as for the apathetic ones, am apathetic to them, too :lol:
yes, they failed to expand. but there are successes (dispute this).
there are more failures than “world beaters” — that plain to see. but this feature is true for all endeavors, right? for every harry potter, there are hundreds of small writers doing their own thing. does that those people are losers?
that’s extreme.
my question is, if we want to be fair, we should mention the successes as well as the failures, and give credit to where its due.
right?
“what’s being argued is that the success of these individual were made possible only after refining their skills in another country.”
if you are good at what you do, you would want to show the world right? they do represent whats good about the country if they do well abroad (as opposed 2 the little league example).
so its NOT that they were successful ONLY AFTER they went abroad.
its coz they were SUCCESSFUL in the country that they wanted to explore their horizons.
GabbyD:
no one’s debating they succeeded in the Philippines.
these individuals are successful – from the point of view of people in the philippines. – they are seeded #1 in the philippines.
if they stayed in the Philippines ONLY – then their horizons would be limited, the exposure narrow, the audience limited, the breaks too puny, their compensation compared to their foreign counterparts are a pittance, and their craft is appreciated only by a few.
Broadway show in WOWOWEE Republic? – lalangawin yan sa pinas, though you can always get a small venue – thus it is easier to fill – then one can say.. the venue was bursting at the seams :lol:
still, success is relative. it’s easy to succeed given low expectations and low standards.
from the view of the international community – which has higher standards, higher expectations, they aren’t even #999 in a list of 1 to 1000. ergo, not successful.
they showed up as a blip OVERSEAS, only after they received the training, from overseas – NOT the philippines.
these individuals are successful – from the point of view of people in the philippines. – they are seeded #1 in the philippines
but, from the view of the international community they aren’t even #999 in a list of 1 to 1000.
they sohwed up as a blip, only after they received the training, from overseas – NOT the philippines.
1) OK. so for you “success” or a positive story means being the top of whatever field you are in, in a global sense?
so 99% of the world are failures?
i can accept that, because success and failure are relative concepts. you are free to define it as such, but there are implications to this defintion.
2) OF COURSE, people get better when they do more work/practice/training, and that they get recognized abroad. we shouldnt debate that.
but for what you are saying to make sense, a successful filipino abroad MUST HAVE GOTTEN NOTHING from his/her time in the philippines.
thats too strong a claim.
GabbyD:
Within the context of B0s thread:
1. YES, to me, a positive story means being the top of whatever field you are in, in a global sense – very superior.
The 99% aren’t exactly losers – they can be further classified into – superior, above average, average, satisfactory, fair, and failed.
Nope. He got something. But whether that something he got is par or sub par with reference to global standards is another matter.
Thus, you can be a top surgeon in the Philippines. When you relocate to the US, you will have to undergo the qualifying exams given to US-trained medical grads to be able to practice your profession. Your something needs validation and verification. And when you pass, you don’t automatically become the top surgeon either – assuming you get a slot for internship – given the tight competition.
In this case, yes, you got something in the Philppines. As far as PI is concerned, ok ka. But overseas, you have to prove it your competence first. And when you prove your competence, it does not mean #1 ka na agad – every one else is competent, possibly more competent than you.
Chances are, the techniques and procedures you perform will be different from the ones done in the PI, even for the same illness. Unless of course, that same institution in the PI imported the technology from overseas (as opposed to originating the technique).
yes it is strong claim backed by empirical evidence.
in the context of this discussion, this standard (of yours) is way too strong.
the goal here is to find positive things to say about the philippines.
if this is your standard, not only the philippines is inferior, but 99% of the countries in the world would fail as well.
can we not say anything positive about these? thats impossible.
as i said in an earlier comment, if we define success this way, then might as well say that the great countries in the world are the ones with the highest GDP/capita.
yun na ba yun? then there is no need to discuss.
then the criteria of B0 should be dropped.
Benigno,
I try to be careful. You stated that “Mahirap naman to move on to the other points you bring up in your above tirade without first telling me what you think of my response regarding it here.” Like I stated, your request was granted and I told you what I thought of your response.
But after that, you stated:
Even if you believe that the “ailment” is the combo deviation you are supposed to have, debating and disproving that you have such a combo deviation will not disprove that you actually have at least one for which your so called “labour of love” is supposed to gratify.
Your attempt will not lead to any resolution of the other points brought up in my supposed tirade. So why should I entertain any further questions from you there?
Anyway, I was able to find a thread in Manolo’s archives. March 2008- http://www.quezon.ph/2008/03/06/sent-back-to-the-supremes/#comments
Your responses to my 9th Mar 2008 10:23 pm and 10th Mar 2008 8:07 am posts were interesting; particularly your 10th Mar 2008 3:27 am and 10th Mar 2008 8:50 am posts.
My post on the tagalog word translation came a few weeks later.
BongV,
Even if that be true, you haven’t considered that she was already a gem before she went to ADMU.
You make it read as if that’s supposed to mean something. As far as I’m concerned, it was voluntary on your part.
You mean like Irish Wayne McCullough, British Amir Khan, Belarusian Andrei Arlovski, Canadian Louise Pitre, etc……
So now you admit that there is another issue which was not there in the first place.
Some of those who enforced the rules were negritos who hardly understand English so I doubt your “highly influenced” claim.
It’s your claim, it’s your homework.
No and definitely not by you.
You’re definitely free to do that. After being able to review the post posted more than a year ago ; its actually “kasanayan” and/or “kakayahan”.
you know the difference between a rough gem and a gem that’s smooth, polished, set on gold and all the dross removed?
ah its the much ado over nothing thingie :lol:
It’s your claim, it’s your homework.
my homework is mine. your homework is yours.
no one is doing your homework for you.
yup yup yup. the nations of these individuals recognize the individuals and at the same time recognize that the technology used to refine the skills of said individuals was not homegrown.
kasanayan is habit, customary, routine
kakayahan is capability
still not efficiency
Really, have you talked to the negrito who was doing the actual trafficking? Cmon dude.
B0 can be squirelly, JL.
nothing has happened to his 3 criteria. i agree w u; his standards don’t make any sense (yet). i’m willing to play along and use his book as a starting point.
but whenever you question his assumptions; he brands you as lazy or lacking in imagination.
how can one have a conversation with this attitude?
are you saying because they are negritos therefore they can hardly understand English? what if you are introduced to a negrito in subic who speaks fluent english will you put your foot in your mouth? :lol:
GabbyD,
I’m sure you’ll find Benigno’s 7th Mar 2008 6:10 pm post in the same “Sent back to the Supremes” in MLQ3’s blog, very interesting.
BongV,
And that doesn’t contradict that it was voluntary on your part.
You are the one who made a claim when you disagreed with De Quiros with it being the cultural superstructure instead of De Quiros’ claim that it was about the system. And in order to support that claim; you presented an abstract of an article but with nothing else.
I did try to access the article but even you imply that you are unwilling to fork over your own money to validate the abstract of your article.
Requested for more details on that article, you point to a separate book wherein you didn’t even give any assurance that whatever “civic culture” is defined in that book is the same “civic culture” is referred to in the 1st article which was initially intended to support your claim that it is really about the cultural superstructure instead of the system.
Whatever homework there is to be done is yours.
Yes I do and I can refer that to Irish Wayne McCullough, British Amir Khan, Belarusian Andrei Arlovski, Canadian Louise Pitre, etc……
Are you referring to our international seafarers? (I said international so don’t bother citing local maritime disasters)
We have very good seafarers (if not one of the best, if not the best)!
You are still free to reject but that is already irrelevant to Benigno’s claim that there is none in the first place.
Nope. But I was able to talk to one who accompanied us in the jungle trek.
Nope.
In fact if memory serves me right; there is already one of them who happens to be a lawyer. And I think she’s a female.
GabbyD,
I’m sure you’ll find Benigno’s 7th Mar 2008 6:10 pm post in the same “Sent back to the Supremes” in MLQ3’s blog, very interesting.
BongV,
ah its the much ado over nothing thingie
same same much ado over nothing thingie.
Gadzooks – Those two books mentioned share the same perspective – there is even another view, the IEMP model which also belies that it is the system.
Which means there is a world out there which does not share David’s view. Use a search engine.
You know 1+1 = 2 in elementary algebra, regardless of the author :lol:
I don’t think so :lol:
yup yup yup. the nations of these individuals recognize the individuals and at the same time recognize that the technology used to refine the skills of said individuals was not homegrown.
BongV,
Still no contradiction that it was voluntary on your part.
So what?
You make it read as if it should “particularly” matter to me if there is a world out there which does not share David’s/De Quiros’ view?
Why should it “particularly” matter to me if there is a world out there which does not share David’s/De Quiros’ view?
Is there a specific post of mine here wherein I agreed with David’s/De Quiros’ view?
I didn’t even disagree with what the abstract of “Civic Culture and Government Performance in the American States” says. There was so little information to make an informed choice of either agreeing or disagreeing with it. You chose to present so little.
And when you were requested to show more details of that article or even a free source of that article, you instead point to a different book.
You claim it’s my homework. I disagree. But it being a weekend; I decided to extend to you something similar to what I extended to Benigno. I read your reference.
Lo and behold. It did mention the work of Putnam. If you made that assurance before; I might have read it earlier than I did.
A large part of the book devoted itself to the issue of trust or “social trust”.
Page 8- Stanley and Smeltzer built on Stanley’s earlier work wherein social cohesion is defined in a somewhat similar fashion to social capital.
Page 9- For John Helliwell, social capital and civic culture are used interchangeably and he focused on the measure of trust as an index of the amount of social capital.
Page 20- In Italy it showed there was causal linkage of higher level of trust and engagement to higher level of regional government performance and in turn to higher levels of economic performance and higher rates of upward convergence towards best practice levels of efficiency.
Page 21- A basic question was asked to interviewees; “Generally speaking, would you say that most people can be trusted or you can’t be too careful in dealing with people?”
Page 23- It says Education has a positive effect on trust level.
Page 27- Those who defined themselves with an ethnic qualifier were less likely to think that people can be trusted.
Page 29- Trust levels are lower where perceived cultural cleavages are stronger and that those who define themselves with ethnic qualifiers do so because of perceived cleavages.
Page 239- “Government officials in societies with higher trust may be perceived as more trustworthy, and their policy pronouncements as thus being more credible”
There other issues regarding volunteerism, transactional costs, etc… and even a part regarding an issue Benigno brought up in his book. But since you have so much on your plate; the above might have to do. Surely you don’t want to have constipation from your own reference.
And I found these from your posts:
In the Sanamagan blog; is that supposed to be a mug shot of PGMA?
The book was your reference material so you should be more than willing to answer the following questions:
Generally speaking, would you say that most people can be trusted or you can’t be too careful in dealing with people? (Better if you subdivide answers as to Moros, Christians, Lumads, Atheists, etc…. as the people)
How about those who share your pride in their kick ass Moro roots; would you say that they would say that most people can be trusted or you can’t be too careful in dealing with people? (Better if you subdivide answers as to fellow Moros, Christians, Lumads, Atheists, etc…. as the people)
How much of an education have you received/taken?
How much do you trust PGMA?
How much do you trust Philippine government officials?
When did these nations recognize that the technology used to refine the skills of said individuals was not homegrown?
What have these nations done when they recognized that the technology used to refine the skills of said individuals was not homegrown?
Why are some these individuals STILL refining their skills with technology that are not homegrown when their nations have already recognized that the technology used to refine the skills of said individuals was not homegrown?
I’m not surprised that you DID NOT CLAIM that it was good for the Philippines regarding our “Very good” and “Best” seafarers.
WAS THERE ANYONE HERE SURPRISED?
Abroad can mean beyond the bounds of one’s country. So they are abroad.
So Filipinos do exceedingly well when they go abroad but can be considered by you as easily commanded and controlled, easily trainable, and will accept DIRT CHEAP WAGES!!! Doesn’t seem to be doing exceedingly well but I guess that ends that!
I think everyone here can decide for themselves if your mind is still open to finding anything that can be considered in a positive light for the Philippines.
(What’s wrong with being easily trainable?)
No it does not!
First- Benigno did not reject kakayahan/kasanayan as Tagalog translations of “efficiency”. He didn’t know that there were any Tagalog translations of “efficiency”.
Second- It’s been more than 30 years since the Dictionary of Fr. English came out. Hampered as Tagalog is; it still do evolve as those who use/speak it; use/speak it. You may just be more accustomed to another definition/translation of the same word.
Bakal – Metal/Steel- Bakal can also mean Gun.
Goma- Rubber- Goma can also mean Condom.
Pambara- Plug- Pambara can also mean food.
Etc…
No, I did not make such a conclusion.
I did not say that those who were enforcing traffic do not speak English well. In fact, I did not say that those who enforced traffic were negritos in the first place.
What I said was that “Some of those who enforced the rules were negritos who hardly understand English”
The guide was not only to serve as one of our guides/protectors but also serve to prevent littering, vandalism, etc…. As Subic was now a tourist destination, he was asked if he knew English, he said that a few of them understand but he wasn’t one of them.
Correction:
A large part of what was available of the book devoted itself to the issue of trust or “social trust”.
“trust” being the causal linkage.
BongV,
That’s already here so you haven’t added anything.
Page 20- In Italy it showed there was causal linkage of higher level of trust and engagement to higher level of regional government performance and in turn to higher levels of economic performance and higher rates of upward convergence towards best practice levels of efficiency.
Which validates the abstract:
When correlated, the results reveal a clear link between civicness and performance.
States that are more civic lend to have governments that enact more liberal and innovative policies.
This relationship between civicness and performance remains strong even after controlling for political culture, ideology, education, and other factors.
BongV,
Which validates the abstract:
For the first sentence only at this point.
There are parts of the second book that were not available for viewing.
But since you have acknowledged “trust” being the causal link; there are a number of “trust” questions above that await your response.
BongV,
Correction:
For the first sentence only at this point.
There are parts of the second book that were not available for viewing.
But since you have acknowledged “trust” being the causal link; there are a number of “trust” questions above that await your response.
In general, I take the view that most people can be trusted. Not that I haven’t come across some untrusworthy ones. But that doesn’t mean we don’t have to deal even with the untrustworthy ones.
Ika nga – I TRUST, BUT, I VERIFY.
My education is my business alone. I’ll have to pass on that question.
Trust GMA with what?
Trust Philippine officials with what? Which Philppine officials? What department? It depends if you are in their good graces or not :lol: , it depends if you know them personally or not, or whether you have verifiable information or not
When did these nations recognize that the technology used to refine the skills of said individuals was not homegrown?
What have these nations done when they recognized that the technology used to refine the skills of said individuals was not homegrown?
Check out Japan, Meiji area – Restoration and Modernization – 19th century
When Japan realized it did not have the homegrown technology – it acquired it. Not just assembly – but complete fabrication from scratch.
BongV,
I can understand that.
The same kind of trust referred to in my quotation of the one in Page 239.
I didn’t accept this as a valid example from Benigno so I won’t accept it from you.
All the while, we have been talking in the context of a democracy . Even your 2nd reference would point to that since a lot of social context of market processes had a resurgence of recognition because of the failure of the new democracies from the old soviet bloc to live up to expectations (Page 6-7)
That whatever issue or culture we are discussing will be deliberated and adopted/rejected by a people as they see fit.
Meiji Japan picked as a model for their Constitution the one of authoritarian Germany (Prussia)
Education was used by Meiji Japan “as a tool of the government for political indoctrination and it served to create an obedient citizenry. Education taught children what to think rather than how to think . The educational system trained students principally to serve modern industrialization as scientists and civil servants.”
http://aggv.bc.ca/Catalogues+Pages.aspx?catalogue=21&page=535
That government was more interested in industrial might than in pluralism and accountability.
Your use of Meiji betrays your thoughts. Are you going to impose whatever issue or culture that you want the same way the Meiji government achieved industrialization?
Not that others won’t resist and not that I particularly want it to happen; but if you try to impose your issue or culture to those who share your Moro roots in the same way that the Meiji achieved industrialization; it’ll probably be an exciting movie one day.
It has been an interesting discussion. Bye.
BongV,
I will trust but I will be cautious as well – which is standard for
me when dealing with strangers – people who I don’t personally
know. Define the “trust” you referred to.
That’s not my problem if you don’t accept it.
What’s even clearer is that in the absence of democracy, Japan
pulled it off. Whereas, PI with all the chest thumping about asia’s
oldest democracy is still stuck in assembly of CKD units.
And what they adopt/reject as they see fit will have an impact on
their governance ;)
Your conclusions are way off. The crux of the matter is Japanese
society saw the need to modernize – and they did, with vigor (not
ningas-cogon).
BongV,
Maybe you should have just agreed to disagree.
You said “In general, I take the view that most people can be trusted……… ”
The interview rates answers in 3 categories only; agree with the first, agree with the second, and “Don’t know”. No qualifiers are necessary and would likely not have been included.
So your answer would have been in the first category.
The “trust” that I was now referring to PGMA and other government officials is the same “trust” in relation to your statements like
Including posting what seems to be a mug shot of PGMA in the Sanamagan blog; and all of that in relation to “Government officials in societies with higher trust may be perceived as more trustworthy, and their policy pronouncements as thus being more credible”.
Actually it is your problem.
Maybe, maybe not. Everyone can determine their own conclusions including by reading below.
You stated the following in your original words:
“And what they adopt/reject as they see fit will have an impact on their governance” doesn’t count because it’s actually my homegrown.
In your original words:
- you glorify the result in a non-democratic Japan. (actually a good result so nothing really against that)
- you disparage the results in a democratic Philippines.
- There is not even a single declaration of support for democracy even in general.
There is no doubt on the effect of industrialization in Japan. But you had the chance to disassociate yourself from the way Meiji Japan conducted itself on its way to industrialization.
You were shown that they performed political indoctrination and created an obedient citizenry. Children were taught what to think rather than how to think . etc…
And you said nothing against it. But that is understandable because the same method superimposed on us will now be imposing the issue/culture that you want.
Your answers betray your thoughts yet again.
The last time I was at Subic, they still enforced the rules. (Don’t bother commenting on Hanjin, that will just likely bring you back to how much trust you have for PGMA and other government officials.)
you mistake the methods for the goals.
the goal may very well have been achieved under a more democratic framework, given that the millieu of the time wasn’t exactly the age of democracy – but the age of empires and conquest – A time when the supposedly democratic US practiced segregation and did not allow allow women’s suffrage.
Another example is the Malaysian experience in establishing the Proton Wira.
Proton is the Malaysian national automobile manufacturer (Malay acronym for PeRusahaan OTOmobil Nasional, ‘National Automobile Enterprise’), which was established in 1983 under the direction of the former Prime Minister, Dr. Mahathir Mohamad. Proton Holdings Berhad, the holding company, is listed on the Bursa Malaysia.
Based on technology and parts from Mitsubishi Motors, production of the first model, the Proton Saga began in September 1985 at its first manufacturing plant in Shah Alam, Selangor. Initially the components of the car were entirely manufactured by Mitsubishi but slowly local parts were being used as technologies were transferred and skills were gained. The 100,000th Proton Saga was produced in January 1989.[1]
Until the end of the 1990s, the car’s logo featured the crest from Malaysia’s coat of arms, featuring a crescent and a fourteen-pointed star. The new Proton logo features a stylized tiger head. In 1993, a model called Proton Wira was introduced based on the Mitsubishi Lancer/Colt. More than 220,000 units were sold between 1996 and 1998.[2] Proton Perdana, based on the Mitsubishi Galant/Eterna, was first produced in 1995, intended for higher end market. The Proton Waja (Proton Impian in UK), which launched early 2001, is the first car model designed internally by Proton.
By 2002 Proton held a market share of over 60% in Malaysia, which was reduced to barely 30% by 2005 and is expected to reduce further in 2008 when AFTA mandates reduce import tariffs to a maximum of 5%. (See “Trivia” section for update on tariff implementation)
With the acquisition of Lotus technologies in 1996 from ACBN Holdings (a company owned by the owner of Bugatti), Proton has gained an additional source of engineering and automotive expertise. This led to the production of Proton Gen-2 which was code name Wira Replacement Model (WRM) before the launch. The Gen-2 is the first of cars to be manufactured and assembled at the new manufacturing plant in Tanjung Malim, Perak which is part of Proton City development project. The plant was opened in 2004. On 8 June 2005 Proton introduced the second model to be manufactured in Tanjung Malim, the 1,200 cc 5-door supermini, the Proton Savvy. Both the Gen-2 and Savvy, were models that MG Rover was looking to rebadge when the British firm entered into collaboration talks with Proton. However these joint-venture talks were unsuccessful and MG Rover subsequently collapsed.
Your conclusions are off
stick to your jeepney :lol:
That SUV that Benigno compares with the jeepney; where do they use that as public transportation?
I have my own SUV, but its a necessity to ride public transportation sometimes. I might be able to come to that country sometime and ride it for a cheap fare.
I do know that taxis and vans are part of public transportation. It’s not uncommon to have a limo for a taxi in Manhattan.
So the fare price is not like the jeepney after all. Ok.
It depends. Say from the corner of 69th St and Woodside, Queens, you take limo cab across to Queens Blvd till you get to 49th street, roughly a mile, would be – $10. If there are four passengers who are getting off in the same block, you can split the tab.
Or, for honest-to-goodness mass transport – there’s always the subway.
Somewhat more expensive than the vans and SUV taxi/shuttle back here but OK. No limos though.
That’s one hell of a photo of the rice terraces. Reminds me a photo of Machu Pichu. It is indeed in a very positive light – photographically speaking.