Tragic. That’s what best describes what happened to Neda who was shot and eventually died on the spot in the middle of a protest march in Iran in the aftermath of an election seen by many as a fraud.
One (of two) thing’s for sure: Neda was a person.
She was somebody’s beloved daughter, somebody’s mother, somebody’s sister, somebody’s wife, fiancee, or girlfriend, somebody’s friend. I’d imagine that the people closest to her and who knew her the most would much prefer to see her alive than dead today.
[...] Neda, stay with me. Neda stay with me [...]
But then for most people, she is now a hero; a hero by virtue of being caught dying on a video that was uploaded to the Net within which it had gone “viral”. Her death is now considered to be a “glorious” death, which — with the aid of modern technology — has further galvanised an uprising against an unjust medieval regime — a great outcome arising from such a terrible tragedy by any measure.
On one hand, I cannot begin to imagine the kind of grief that accompanies an unexpected loss of a loved one. On the other hand, I could imagine the honour that her family could potentially feel in seeing Neda made into a symbol of a noble fight. Yes, it is actually possible for me to imagine this — which is why I can understand why some people can be more so inclined to go a bit further and presume to speculate on some imagined “heroic” intent in Neda dying on the streets of Tehran on the 20th of June this year.
Indeed, to Filipino Voices resident “reporter” Ding G. Gagelonia, the image of Neda’s lifeless face is a “powerful” persuasion device adorning his recent article “Iran’s Hand-Counted ‘Automated’ Polls And Its Kontra Dagdag Bawas Heroine“.
BUT, and firstly, exhibiting Neda’s lifeless face in that article was done in poor taste [NB: Apparently the image that originally showed Neda's lifeless face individually framed in that article has since been changed into one showing that original image in a different context, i.e., being framed by a placard wielded by a protester in Tehran.]. How would we feel if the deceased remains of our mother, sister, or daughter was splashed all over a public forum without our consent? There is a reason, Ding, why one of the first things a decent person does when confronted by the sight of a human corpse is to close its eyes and cover it up.
Second, the main point of the article does not even seem to be about Neda. Rather, Neda’s story and the disturbing images of her lifeless face in it, were mere segues or introductions to a statement about some dimwitted Filipino political issue. You can tell even from just the title of the article what the article really means to allude to or highlight.
Iran’s Hand-Counted ‘Automated’ Polls And Its Kontra Dagdag Bawas Heroine
Very classy, Ding. All that just as a front act to what is really the point of your article:
Such blatant fraud [in the Iranian elections] makes one wonder how our own upcoming truly automated elections will fair [sic], with the COMELEC still negotiating the finer points of the contract it is awarding to the Smartmatic TIM consortium.
We’ll be paying them PhP 11.2-B NOT TO OWN BUT RENT the machines, in case this information is missed.
COMELEC Chairman Melo, a former lawyer of Benjamin Abalos Sr. (yes, the resigned former head of that poll body) explains that the cost is only to lease the machines for the 2010 elections “because the way technology gets outmoded so quickly, we can’t be left with old gadgets and with Smartmatic automatically being our maitenance outfit every electoral exercise after 2010.”Elections management indeed is BIG BUSINESS, at taxpayer expense, of course.
A report (one done properly, Ding) from the MSNBC gives a bit of a reality check on the matter:
[Quoting from an interview with Neda's fiance Caspain Makan] “When the clashes were occurring, Neda was far away from the demonstrations, she was in one of the side alleys near Amir Abad,” Makan said, according to a translation of the interview. “Thirsty and tired or being cooped up for about an hour in the car in heavy traffic with her music instructor, she finally gets out of the car and, based on the pictures sent in by the people, armed forces in civilian clothes and the Basiji (Iranian militia) targeted and shot her in the heart.”
So as to the question thrown around by the Dingman here:
Neda gave her life to fight for her freedom. [...]
I hope you don’t mind if I answer with another question:
Did she, Ding?
In the same way that I’d also respond to you on this other gem of yours:
[...] Filipinos other than you, are willing to do the same.
Are they, Ding?
The more proper way to put Neda’s death in the proper perspective (rather than spin idiotic rhetoric around it) is to focus on a less debatable truth;
For sure (the second of two things certain here), Neda was murdered.
She did not go to the protest rally with the intention of dying much less becoming a “hero”. She was an innocent victim of homicide, and it is this act of homicide — allegedly perpetrated by an Iranian government agent or officer on an innocent civilian — that makes her death symbolic.
So let’s not presume to be “experts” on any personal circumstances that may lead to one’s death or continued living. Living can be just as accidental — or even as tragic — as dying, Ding.
To her family, Neda’s death was an unexpected and senseless tragedy. To the rest of the world her death symbolises the handywork of an unjust regime.
There are no pre-meditated heroes or “martyrs”. Only accidental ones.
Let’s leave it at that, Ding.
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Your view is yours, Benigs and you are entitled to it.
You are you. I will leave it at that.
Benigno Aquino, Jr. and Jose Rizal did not accidentally become Heroes.
They faced dictatorships knowing fully well the fate that they’d meet.
The Filipino IS Worth Dying For.
But I do not expect you to understand that.
Stay well, and comfortable.
There are no pre-meditated heroes or “martyrs”. Only accidental ones.
Im waiting for the inevitable weaseling out of this statement once it’s shown that it’s factually false, but not to worry, benny. I got your point.
this brings to mind philippine media’s abuse of the word “bayani.”
taxi driver returns lost baggage = bayani
ofw sends remittance = bayani
teacher reports excess funds in atm account = bayani
policeman returns envelope containing cash = bayani
sadly, the words “hero” and “heroism” have become too trivialized and largely misunderstood.
why again do they say “bayani” about the OFW who remits money to take care of parents or spouse?
maybe for dramatic effect.
it’s interesting to note also that those who bestow the title of “bayani” on ofws are more often than not politicians.
“There are no pre-meditated heroes or “martyrs”. Only accidental ones.”
I had a friend in Viet Nam. His squad was going through a village, clearing it of VC. A chinese grenade came flip-flopping out of a hooch and landed in front of the lead troops. Chuck Martarano was there. He dove on it. He knew what he was doing.
What would you call him?
Joe
i’d call him a hero. that seems pretty obvious i think. he gave up his life to save others in his squad. neda apparently was just at the wrong place at the wrong time. there’s no question she has become a symbol. but a hero i don’t think so.
Even from the point of view of those who shot Neda, I can risk being wrong to believe that she was in fact considered one of their enemies, reason why the Iranian militia in fact targeted her and shot her straight to her heart.
If being a hero is territorial, then Neda, for all intent and purpose, belongs to the territory. Besides, symbolisms are in fact 10 times larger than reality.
to Primer: The person who shot Neda is a pathologically sick murderer. Between a male and a female target, a soldier will shoot the male. Between an adult target and a teen-ager, the soldier will shoot the adult.
Joe, I’d call him a good soldier, dude.
Nobody does exceptional things — even things that require more than a pound of courage — with the expressed intent to be a “hero”.
I’ve seen many people who survived “heroic” acts tell sheepishly in a subsequent interview how they were simply doing what any decent person would do.
Much more a soldier, mate.
Much more a soldier.
[Satisfied with that answer, Jeg? ;) ]
It’s simple, really™ — though not for the small-minded.
Mustela nivalis. ;-)
LOL
Ahahaha. Panalo Jeg! The expression on the eyes of the animal! Priceless!
Now, napa-research tuloy ako sa origin ng “weasel”.
Via Wikipedia:
“The expression weasel word derives from the egg-eating habits of weasels. An egg that a weasel has sucked will look intact to the casual observer, while actually being empty. Similarly, words or claims that turn out to be empty upon analysis are known as “weasel words”. The expression first appeared in Stewart Chaplin’s short story Stained Glass Political Platform (published in 1900 in The Century Magazine),[1] in which they were referred to as “words that suck the life out of the words next to them, just as a weasel sucks the egg and leaves the shell.”
Benign0
Well, as it turns out, Chuck’s belly snuffed the grenade firing mechanism; he grabbed the grenade and threw it forward. It went off and gave him a few shrapnel souvenirs. He went on to do more good soldiering and he left the army with a handful of medals and scars, the former of which he stowed in the attic, for he basically agrees with you. He was just doing his job. He then became a highly successful banker . . .
He loved those sappy mid-day television soap operas . . . go figure . . .
I’m not yet fully convinced on your point, but I’ll be ambling off anyway, in search of arguments I might reasonably win . . .
Joe
so he wasn’t killed then… wrong assumption on my part… still what he did was heroic.
betterphilippines,
Yes, and to those walking next to him, and their wives and kids, he was most clearly a hero. I think the definition of “hero” depends on one’s perspective, and Benign0′s is intellectual. I asked Chuck why he did it and he said “I was closest.” So even if the hero doesn’t think what he did was heroic, to others it was.
Joe
I think the definition of “hero” depends on one’s perspective, and Benign0’s is intellectual.
Eh? Since when are weaseling and moving the goalposts intellectual? It’s why you can’t ‘win’ an argument with our pal benny. His goalposts have wheels. :-D
Jeg, yes, I noticed those magic goal posts. The amazing thing about them is that they often end up right back where they started, having moved full circle about the arena. By then, the kicker’s leg is worn out.
As for intellectual, I don’t in this instance mean literate or erudite, I mean looking at the connotation “hero” from a distant, definitional sense. If Benign0 shared the passions of the green-clad people in the streets of Iran, and had been alongside Neda, his perspective would likely be different; his keyboard is not surrounded by guns and his freedoms are not determined by what he types.
I grant him his respect, though, because he is slipperier and weaselier with words than me, and more often than not, actually makes sense.
Joe
“For sure (the second of two things certain here), Neda was murdered.
She did not go to the protest rally with the intention of dying much less becoming a “hero”.”-benignO
Martin Luther King did not go to that crowd with the intention of dying. He just wanted to make a speech.
Abraham Lincoln just wanted to see a stage play.
Jose Rizal just wanted a stroll at the Luneta.
Ninoy Aquino just wanted to be with his wife Cory.
What is a hero are we talking about?
Bert:
All the men you mentioned were quite aware that death would come to them at any time by virtue of their sustained political engagement. They were already symbols before they were assassinated.
Ninoy had heart problems and was about to croak, he took the gamble of either dying by croaking or being felled by a bullet – and the bullet came first.
Neda on the other hand is collateral damage, now being used as a symbol.
Neda… used…. Now I understand why benign0 is pissed with Ding using Neda’s bloody picture to create interest in his blogpost about Comelec 2010-machines.
“policeman returns envelope containing cash = bayani”
I’m proud to say my dad was one of this back in the 80s, during Constabulary days.
Yes, heroes are not those who come up and say “I want to be a hero.” They just do their thing… their job, if you may… who cares about the glory?
Actually, on Neda, I was thinking of the loss that her family felt, not of the heroism that was placed on her by other people. At least the loss was lightened by some meaning attached to it, but it’s still a loss.
To Chino F: did you think Neda is related to COMELEC election machines 2010 Pinas elections?
No. Why make that kind of connection?
DISAGREE.
Surely, by your statement you agree that there are heroes after all. Just that they are all accidental. Not my words, but yours.
After all, the statement “only accidental ones”, precludes any other form of heroism other than what you specify as being accidental.
Again, we should list examples:
Ninoy Aquino and Jose Rizal are our own examples. Heroes or not?
Accidental or not?
I would beg to disagree if you answer no on both being a hero, and I would further disagree if you answer that these were accidental.
A claim as wide ranging as yours is almost a statement that strikes the word hero out of the dictionary altogether.
Be reminded as well, that heroes are not just national figures, and as such, those who have a choice between their own lives and the lives of others then choose to forgo their own, that in itself is an act of heroism. These are called degrees of commitment, surely being a good citizen has boundaries that will ultimately tread on heroism.. being a “good soldier” is different from self sacrifice. And so on and so forth.
And per information, one of the greatest icons of the civil rights movement, Rosa Parks, merely sat in a bus.. for this act, she has become a hero for many.. that my dear friend is real.. tangible.. you can say she’s not a hero, and Martin Luther King Jr. an accidental hero, who was the centerpiece in the movement that paved way for a black president in America.. that is tangible, and people all over the world will beg to differ with regards to your opinion on this matter.
Did you say “Rosa Parks merely sat in a bus?” You may need to do more reading about her.
UP n grad, I live in the state where Rosa Parks has called home.. I was merely pointing out the fact that by act of sitting on that bus, declining to stand up for White Passengers, that in itself was courageous and heroic.
I know Rosa Park’s life story very well, was taught about her life back in elementary. met her in person, there’s no need to emphasize her tremendous role. the statement was meant to point out to benigz that simple acts, can truly be the spark of something great.
I love it when this happens. It’s like the scene from Annie Hall when some intellectual type criticizes Marshall McLuhan’s theories, and then McLuhan himself shows up to lay the smack-down on him.
And Abraham Lincoln, because of his accomplishments, would still be a hero of USA history even had he died three years later of the flu or from falling from a horse.
Lincoln’s stature comes Because of his accomplishments — not because he was felled by assasin.
“Lincoln’s stature comes Because of his accomplishments — not because he was felled by assasin”
i agree.
i guess the basic question here is whether or not neda should be deemed a hero or just a symbol or both?
indeed. couldn’t agree more.
A female-hating murderer coward killed Neda.
Neda had no value as a target, but this sicko aimed the scope crosshairs right on her chest, then pulled the trigger. A misogynistic sicko killed Neda.
In my response to Joe, I said:
Which Mr. Chino F makes a more succinct paraphrase:
Being called a “hero” is an accidental bonus to people who are just doing their thing.
Indeed, as you say here:
Usually whatever “great” thing that follows what we think is a simple act is unexpected, implying that there was no intention to be a hero by performing said simple act.
That’s what I meant, Nick.
They became “heroes” by doing the right thing because nearly everyone else, isn’t.
“dito ka na kay erap, wag kang mgpaka-hero na iboto si Roco”.
here’s a link to a Time Magazine article about a man who did the right thing and did not ask for glory.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,925257,00.html
it’s a poignant piece.
Actually, I don’t say that calling Neda a hero is necessarily wrong. It’s just that some people may do it in a way as to demean her demise, such as by sensationalizing it. Some may call her a hero for daring to join that demonstration and risking a sniper’s bullet (that is, if the sniper was a government enforcer). That she died from the bullet may have galvanized it. But there were so many at risk in that demonstration… would they be called heroes? That’s best left for personal opinion… I’ll just say her loss is something we could all learn from… and hopefully the Iranians could too.
Couldn’t those who tried but failed to go against 1109 be hailed as ‘heroes’ or ‘martyrs’?
Those who did not sign 1109, who did not shout “ayes” in the voting by viva voce are like Neda – they were rendered ‘lifeless’, ‘voiceless’, ‘valueless’ – by the tyrannical majority.
sorry to disagree. it would be too much of a stretch to call them heroes in a practical sense. for effect, maybe.
not even, betterphilippines. they are contrarians, that’s all, who happen to disagree with the majority for their own reasons/agenda. one man’s “hero” is another man’s villain.
As defined in the dictionary:
Based on the above definitions, those who disagreed are not “heroes” much less “martyr”.
We mourn for the uneccessary death of a young woman. It is a symbol
of a regime trying to impose its will by violence to its people.
Iranian Islamic Republic was born by trying to follow the Islamic
laws and ways of life. They hope to progress, with those Petro Dollar
earnings. The young people instead saw Stagnation of their country.
There are still widespread poverty in the Islamic Republic. They are
also in conflict with the West and Israel. The crack in the Islamic
Regime began to show up with the outcome of the election.
People who want Freedom will always try again and again to achieve
Freedom. Al Queda people who are fighting for the Islamic ways of
life must take notice. The Islamic Paradise can turn out into no
Paradise at all.
To the “accidental” heroine, Neda:
The celestial voice of Sarah Brightman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbN0g8-zbdY&feature=related
Accidental hero or not it sad to see a young woman die from the hands of a thug who represent a repressive regime
A tribute to Neda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2nG1bt7IBM&feature=related
i agree with benigno. no hero worth the honor pre-plans himself to become a hero or martyr. they just want to do “the right thing” regardless of whether they die for it or not. they just do it without wasting time on whether they will be hailed as heroes or forgotten in an unmarked grave. whether or not the world of the living will honor them is never their concern. they are not like the suicide bomber who is promised 9 virgins as a reward for their heinous act.
show me an alleged hero who coveted the honor beforehand as an inducement to doing what he did, and i’ll show you a stupid charlatan.
Bencard, I don’t think heroes define themselves. Others do, based on how impressed they are with the person who, even by accident, did a great thing. The point is, “that person over there did something special” and I am better for it. I think Webster and Benign0 can define all they want and the hero will still be a hero to those who think he or she is a hero.
Neda did something special, accidental and tragic for sure, against her wishes, most certainly. But she represents the hope that the protestors hold and reflects the risk that people who DEEPLY CARE take every time they walk out on dangerous streets to face a greater, well-armed, power. Filipinos who have been in the streets, surrounded by guns, know the feeling, and have courage, whether they live or die, whether guns are fired or not, whether others agree with their issue at hand or not, or whether others agree with street protests or not.
Those guns are loaded, man. It’s scary.
Anyway, for me, personally, there is no need to define it, no need to detract from the quality of the deed. Neda was out there.
Joe
and who is detracting from the “quality of the deed”? btw, thanks for agreeing with me that benigno is right, i.e. that there can be no “premeditated” hero.
Ben,
Don’t mention it. I agree with you more often than you know.
Joe
actually achiles wanted to be a hero, did he not?
Couldn’t politicians be, by and large, the ones you can refer to as ‘premeditated heroes or martyrs’ since they can actually plan, project, program the revering minds of their constituents to believe that they are the Messiah – who can lift them out of abject poverty, et cetera?
In an oblique way, I think politicians are such heroes or martyrs.
yeah. Erap is a martyr? you have gotta be kidding me.
if you are paid to do a job which specifies serving the people – that’s your job, nothing heroic about it. moreover, the filipino politicians go into politics to serve themselves not the people – so puhleeze….
next thing you know… hero si bayani fernando :lol:
hay buhay… san miguel beer… SMB… Style M_ Bulok
i couldn’t agree more bong v. it’s as if our politicians really exist to serve the people’s interest.
I think we are forgetting a VERY important aspect of heroism.
HEROISM is something OTHERS bestow upon you for acts that people consider heroic. this is one lesson i learned from the illiad…
it is all relative. one man’s “hero” is another man’s “terrorist”.
am sure the cyclops considered odysseus a “terrorist” while the crew hailed the latter as a hero.
Is it advisable for Gloria to extend her term through parliamentary government while the probability of repeating the incident in Iran is distinctly possible?
Why risk if tomorrow’s peace can be managed/prevented in front?
pre-meditated heroes, accidental heroes, WTF!
everyone has his/her ‘hero’. my hero is a created hero…Superman!
if NEDA is perceived by some to be a hero, who is benignO, or any one here, to refute those perceptions.
of course benignO’s hero is, jaraaaan…himself, heheh.
i like you, bert, but once again you just don’t get it, my man.
Shut up, Bencard! You think you are as brilliant as benignO, your kind so dazzled by that thought it addled your brain such that you cannot even discern the heroism of a young girl going to a mass rally, risking life for her love of her country Iran. Now I understand more why your love for Gloria exceed that of your love for your country the Philippines inspite of Gloria’s cheating ways, heheh.
as brilliant as benigno? why would i think that? so the young girl was a hero for attending a mass rally? suppose she didn’t die, would she still be a hero to you. what about the hundreds of thousand others who didn’t get shot? are they all heroes by your standard? what about the hundreds of thousands who rallied to install the mullahs into power after deposing the last shah? are they heroes too?
btw, by what right are you asking me to shut up? i don’t have to “love” the president to defend her from unfair attacks. i happen to think that according my president due respect and obedience is part and parcel of my love for my country.
Sorry, biro lang iyon, Bencard. I don’t want you to shut up actually. I’ve been learning so much from you so just don’t mind that ‘shut up’ thing. Kapag pumasok ka kasi, parang sinasadya mong inisin ako, heheh.
Joe America, Heroes are not made nor by intention. Heroes are all accidental like EDSA ACCIDENTAL REVOLUTION. Honasan, Enrile and Ramos where accidental heroes by circumstance.
I’m afraid that benigno has to set the record straight as to whether Neda joined the protest and died in the unseen process or were just a bystander or something.
I suspect, we cannot be selective in which to account.
Actually, Joe, what I attempt to do is see beyond the “green-clad people” on the streets of Tehran and regard Neda from the following non-debatable perspectives:
:o Neda as a person which I believe I spelled out clearly here:
:o Neda as a victim of murder which I believe I spelled out clearly here:
It’s simple, really™.
Good to know you are human, as you feel for those whom she left.
But what if she was just in the “wrong place” would you still call her a heroine? What if, maybe she was just passing through and minding her own business.
The point, there are two point of views with Iranians, the extremely religious and the extremely westernized, which side would you be? As history proves it, they wanted the western countries to help them but most of them dont like westerners, what can you say?
the worst thing about B0′s ideas here is that he insists that only the “non-debatable facts” are important,
but the concept of heroism cannot be understood without grasping debatable facts. its that simple.
in fact, under his view, all fields of human endeavour where opinions, collective action, perception, are important are silly.
for example — art. What is good art? what is bad? B0 would say: there is no such thing as good or bad art.
for him, there are only non-debatable facts: what is it a picutre of? is it a photo-realistic depiction? what kind of paint was used? what technique?
But this is an incomplete picture of what art is. its that simple…
if he can’t get it, or refuses to learn, thats unfortunate…
Bert,
How well can you understand a statement that according the president due respect and obedience is part and parcel of love for country?
Will you care to share your thoughts please?
Primer,
My answer to your question wil be merely a very personal opinion and might not be agreeable to most, so pasensya na. Simple lang ang sagot ko dito.
In some respect I agree that according the president of your country due respect and obedience could be part and parcel of love for your country. But it is a truism that love is earned, and there is always a cause why you love something or somebody. In our case here in the Philippines, the Filipino people does not love their president anymore as have been shown by the surveys. Oh yes, they loved her before but not anymore. The Filipino people have their reasons for their antipathy to their president, and we know what those reasons are.
Going back to your question, when a particular citizen continues to profess love for the president who is not loved by the people, that particular citizen, in essence, has taken a certain personal stance favoring a fellow citizen who happen to be the president he/she love, and that, I think, is against the interest of the country and the people. Therefore his/her respect and obedience to his/her president could be interpreted as simply a matter of personal feeling and nothing to do with love of country.
bert, as i’ve told you, one doesn’t have to “love” the president to accord her respect and obedience. btw, it seems to me that, based on the “surveys”, the 40% that supported her in 2004 still support her. the remaining 60% that supported fpj, lacson, roco, villanueva, etc., are still not satisfied with her. please don’t refer to these 60% as “the country and the people”. these are the losers who are perennially on the outside, and looking for revenge.