I have to thank someone’s heroic efforts to keep an interesting discussion on track in the face of quite a number of hollowheaded “commentary”. Commendable, indeed, and to be fair, some of the less pompous among us have stepped up with their 2-cents.
But then this sticks out like a sore thumb:
I actually want to hear what Abe Margallo, now a long-time US citizen, would say. Does Abe even define the Philippines to his children, and if “yes’, what does Abe say? Leytenian seems to be bowing out; what about cvj? Or Ding G? Does Nick (him also a US citizen) describe Pinas to his children, and what does Nick say?
How many more calls have you made since that first (or second?) one, UP n grad? Three? Five?
Silence speaks loudly, doesn’t it? ;)
So far all you get for your trouble from our esteemed “experts” on politics is this one from the venerable Dean Jorge Bocobo:
sparks,
I really like “Seychellois”…must be nice there!
There were quite a number of more insightful input from less be-credentialled folk. Trouble is, most seem to have cited character traits rather than describe something that we as a people stand for. Taking a stand demands more and is fuelled by something potent, whether it be a hatred for another people (to take some liberties with a few concepts you introduced, UPn) or genuine conviction of superiority as to invoke a collective warlike belligerence (the kind that built the great empires of the past) or a crystal-like clarity of one’s place in the scheme of humanity as to underpin a drive to uphold and even spread one’s cultural and politial influence.
If we prefer instead to be content with a definition of an identity, then of course we will succeed at hopping over such a low bar as Bencard easily demonstrates:
what does the ‘Filipino’ stand for? it stands for membership in that unique group of men/women who are joined together by common race, ethnic origin and ancestry, sharing a common heritage, cultural values, aspirations, a defined home in the face of the earth (from which they may or may be absent for the moment), and belief in the same constitution and set of laws which they themselves enacted to govern themselves.
[Sorry Bencard, you seem to confuse defining a stand with the mere effort of defining ourselves as a country, the latter of which for its part also falls short of defining ourselves as a people.]
Achievement however demands as a prerequisite the setting of a high bar to aspire for. Even as we struggle with the low bar of defining an identity, the aim for a stand — the higher bar — I realise seems a virtual impossibility for a people such as ours based on what I’ve seen so far.
What does the “Filipino” stand for?
The question remains unanswered; not that it ever will be convincingly.
Then again isn’t conquest of perceived impossibility the very essence of achievement? Maybe not so if you are a Filipino. And that kind of regard for achievement is probably what defines us.
=========
Join us on Facebook!
Popularity: 1% [?]
“…as we struggle with the low bar of defining an identity…” – benign0
But you’re miss the points of relevance of comaprison. The Philippines should not and cannot be compared with the developed countries – U.S., Australia, etc.
At the least or most(?), see the situation in the newly developed countries: Brazil, Russia, India, and China (BRIC).
Hve you been to the BRIC capitals Rio de Janeiro, New Delhi, Moscow, and Beijing? You will be enlightened that the incidence of poverty and living on one dollar a day is pervasive.
BTW, Slumdog Millionaire is now a big hit.
Have some context and/or relevance and you should be OK.
my tongue is in my cheek, and we are a catholic country, it’s in the doctrine that the meek shall inherit the earth. when that time comes i’m sure benignO shall eat his words, hehehe.
Sure I will.
I wouldn’t hold my breath though. :D
but why not just come up with your own and personal answer to the question ” what does the Filipino stand for ” rather than resot to ad hominems?
Im actually is very insterested in how everybody answer the question. And yes I heard bencard and Im very interested to hear Abe and other long time US citizens.
Siguro mamayang gabi sa Birthday Party ng isang kaibigan na gaganapin sa Perlas ng Silangan Restaurant, I will dangle the same question during the inuman and I wil share with you guys what people from outside the blog and non pundits like me reacts to Benigs question.
The thread remains open. That’s good!!
One more call to DJB, Nick, Ding G, Abe.
Benigs,
I think what DJB was trying to say is that stop with the bull@##@, you open up these questions in order to sucker punch The entire Filipino Race.
Definition? Why limit an entire nation with one single line of definition? oKay, let’s try this.. strength, love, freedom, love of freedom.. that’s it, but despite this definition, it limits us because it doesn’t take into account our capacity to shape our own future and that an attempt to define leads to a propaganda of sorts. A propaganda of nationalism.
You say we have underachieved, but that is the power of a dynamic universe, the capacity to reinvent ourselves. Germany did it after the stranglehold of a dictator. We tried to do it ourselves after Marcos, but as you say we underachieved.
But unlike these reinventions, you yourself keep reinventing the same invention, that of a get real philippines, as if everyone lives in a fantasy land. Well, trust me benigs, if this is fantasy, I doubt a third of our countrymen would agree to this fantasy. Indeed, it’s as real as it comes, only you don’t seem to realize that everyone already knows this.
Well, my dear Benigs, as I have always told friends and colleagues, The Philippines deserves to be heralded as a nation of strong individuals. We have a rich history, and yet we pursue the ideals left to us by Rizal and Ninoy, that we can be a great nation. I don’t need a definition to tell me that our nation is great, i just need to look to the multitudes of Filipinos working for a better nation.. and in that realization, I can also say that we stand for LOVE.. love of nation and love of our people.
If you disagree, then so be it, but don’t deny that we have that capacity to shape our own future, if that weren’t the case, then why live at all? or blog at all?
You want to define as if to say that this is all we will ever be. That we have reached the limits.
To define a nation, is to succumb to propaganda and to limit our own possibilities of who we are. The complexities of man is hard enough to define, what more of an entire nation? But, I remain steadfast in the definition of Strength and Love, general, but it can be seen in our everyday.
A nation is defined by its rich history, it’s people, and it’s land. It will always stand for itself, and the preservation and welfare of its own land. This rings true for all nations. And that my friend is not a definition of The Philippines, but it is a definition of humanity as it tries to grasp its own role in the complexity of it all. We stand for a better future my friend. And The Philippines is no different than the rest of humanity.
Good bait though my friend.. instead of asking others, lay out your own foundation first.. Maybe then, we can call you a provider of solutions and not just more of the same problems.
Does Abe even define the Philippines to his children, and if “yes’, what does Abe say?
If Nick (him also a US citizen) were to chat with his children about Pinas or the Filipino spirit, what will Nick say?
Blackhama say “NONE”. I asked blackshama about noteworthy comments about Pinas or Filipinos that he heard when he was studying for his PhD in Queensland, Australia. blackshama says “NONE”.
DJB…. any comments about Pinas you have heard from colleagues at General Electric/other companies… or from neighbors and friends during your years at US-of-A? When asked why did you return to RP, is your answer only “…lower cost of living”?
What about Pinoy parents in Pinas when they talk to their children? If Ding G also a parent were to talk to his children about the Filipino spirit, what would he say?
Ding G has responded. Thanks to Ding (and to rego, cvj, blackshama, leytenian, gabby.. all who have responded).
Nick,
Amen.
Benign0,
I really hate to call you out on this but this post has been all ad hominem. You have a point sometimes but it’s absolutely unfair to use the names of those who dissent to your opinion, which if you haven’t noticed, is abrasive and highly unpopular. What you’re doing will only erode on your argument, not make it stronger.
so which of the stand for definitions (per dictionary.com) are you looking at:
1. representation/symbolism
2. advocacy/support
3. tolerance
lay your definition first.
The Philippines as far back as Blas Ople and Marcos-years has implemented OFW’sm as a policy.
And the Philippines even further than that had surrendered its population policy to Vatican exhortations.
Work against above two Philippine practices and you work against benigno’s “labour-breeder” description.
to sparks: China (if only with its population policy) does not fit “labour-breeder” of Benign0.
how about this Benigno: We stand for the worst evil mankind has ever conceived and we hardly noticed it.
______________________________________________________________
Have you been to the BRIC capitals Rio de Janeiro, New Delhi, Moscow, and Beijing? You will be enlightened that the incidence of poverty and living on one dollar a day is pervasive. Phil Manila.
______________________________________________________________
the argument that other countries are poorer than the Philippines should not be a source of jubilation, reverse the question, other countries are richer than the Philippines then that should be a source of inspiration. roll your sleeves gentlemen/woman and buckle down to work, that is if there is work available or you can make your own employment of you are enterprising enough.
stop pointing fingers… just work and work.
benigno, so that was what you were looking for in asking “what does the filipino stand for”, i.e. in terms of “achievement”, huh? why didn’t you say so in the first place? you’re right, you confused me with your vagueness.
what could a nation stand for in terms of achievement? collectively, every nation aspire for greatness, love, peace, prosperity, health, happiness, power and all the “good” things in life. like an individual, sometimes a nation can only aspire and dream, unable to realize what he wishes for. a relatively few nations were able to achieve most of their aspirations, e.g. u.s., u.k., france, canada, australia, etc., but the majority, including the philippines, have not, no matter how they tried in the best way they know how and within their capability.
but i don’t think the failure to realize one’s dream necessarily means that the dreamer (nation or individual) does not, or ceases to, “stand” for the good things in life. being mediocre doesn’t necessarily mean that a nation stands for mediocrity.
One notable Filipino trait is compassion. If you look back to previous threads with similar type of exchanges, after a barrage of bull-session type criticisms against Benign0 like the above, some commenter would eventually come along to take up the role of Benign0′s Bitch. That explains his long-term survival in the Philippine blogging world.
From my interpretation of “A vast farm of breeders”, it seems that to stand for something, a country’s peoples need to be a significant part of global history? So I guess my question is do we need affirmation outside of the Filipino race to define what we stand for?
As an example, if it is said Filipinos stand for “Truth”, this can only be true if confirmed by the US, Australia, South Africa etc etc.
If we’re never mentioned in a 20th Century Almanac we never amounted to anything and therefor stand for nothing?
I think this is wrong thinking because we were the only people on earth, we’d still have to stand for something.
Right now, I have to say it’s not much and it’s not because nobody else in the world has confirmed it. We can work on having something of “substance” to stand for though. I love how you said:
“Then again isn’t conquest of perceived impossibility the very essence of achievement?”
Maybe one day we can say we stand for perseverence and courage in the face of “perceived impossibility”.
benigno is a writer. he will extract all comments and compile it as his own. He can be running out of ideas. :)
Why should I contribute when honesty and integrity are undervalued. If I were you folks, do not make comments. It’s not our problem but Benigno alone. We have our own collection of Pinoy definition and was already discussed on his previous post.
Please weigh the value of the blog if it’s worth your time. Remember the “substance” that beningo is advocating. It’s ironic that he himself cannot deliver.
goodbye my beloved benigno. I still like you inspite of all your bullshit. :)
If there was truly something significant and convincing to counter the views I set forth, then why don’t we see any coherent blog articles (rather than mere comments) to articulate it, Nick?
Jon, no need to apologise for “calling me out”. That’s your prerogative. If you want to call me out on citing names, call out Rom as well as she’s cited me, singled me out, and torpedoed my views in no less than three articles. And in good form too. ;)
I too am interested to hear about the responses you get, rego. Look forward to it.
Nick, a proper response to your earlier comment this time: What makes you think I impose the criteria of “one single line of definition”? A definition can constitute an entire book and still be a definition — just as Karl Marx’s Manifesto attempts to define his concept of communism.
Yes, I say we underachieved, and yes we have “the capacity to reinvent ourselves”. So show us then. Where’s the evidence that we are in fact undertaking such an initiative to re-invent.
As for what you say here:
… again, does that really define us? Do we “love” our country? Then why do we continue turning it into a pigsty?
I try not to deny our “capacity to shape our own future”. But the empirical evidence demonstrates otherwise. We have so far shown no such capacity.
I continue thus to say: Get Real Philippines.
The Filipinos stand for the building of a just and humane society, and the establishment of a Government that shall embody our ideals and aspirations, promote the common good, conserve and develop our patrimony, and secure to ourselves and our posterity, the blessings of independence and democracy under the rule of law and a regime of truth, justice, freedom, love, equality, and peace.
benign0,
Isn’t pointing out an incident so far back in the past (this was the beginning of your “koan” posts right?) helps us here. That’s a bit like a “but she started it!” mantra.
rom,
Don’t do ad homimems again, wherever you are! :D
^^oops… “Isn’t” shouldve been “I don’t think”
I’m saying, Jon, that I don’t see anything wrong about calling out specific names. For example, I keep calling out Dean, Abe, etc. But I call them out because of the ideas they seem to advocate. I don’t go beyond that and speculate on their personal circumstances the way you-know-who remains fixated on the type of visa I used to come to Australia. ;)
Besides, we’re also in the business of needling politicians and other government officials. So if we dish it out, we should also be prepared to cop it.
As such, I also see nothing wrong with how Rom conducted herself (and certainly she wasn’t dishing out ad hominems) as she was focused on the message I put forth as she is with most of her blog posts (at least the one’s I’ve read).
Are you kidding me Benigs? i know of professors who stay and teach for the sake of the future, this rings true for many of our teachers.. proof right there..
I know of many businessmen who give back to the community for the sake of our nation, proof right there..
I know of students who go volunteer their weekends because they feel it is their civic duty to do so.
Just because you choose to close your eyes to the individuals and groups who devote their entire lives, and much of their time towards the improvement of our nation, does not mean they do not exist.
A pigsty you say? Reality is often what you perceive it to be, your biases included.
I doubt, these groups, these individuals, who you seem to think are invisible, and are ghosts, I doubt they do it because they want the Philippines to be an pigsty.
Open your eyes Benigs.. there are people who work towards the development and improvement of our nation. They exist.
That my friend is LOVE..
open your eyes and get real!
So, I take offense, when you generalize for the sake of favoring your own argument.
That statement right there.. “then why do we continue turning it into a pigsty?”
We?
Speak for yourself, because there are multitudes of Filipinos fighting against it. And that my friend, is reality.
What has this article contributed? I say nothing but propaganda to further your own ideological falsifications of our entire culture.
*********
And, we have shown no such capacity to shape our future you say?
Really?
None?
None at all?
Hmmm, by golly, then what the hell are good politicians, straightforward businessmen, those who work on policy formation, teachers who shape the minds of our youth, students who achieve despite their environment, and worthwhile writers and academics… I wonder what in the world could they be doing.. they must all be playing PSP or just sitting on their desks playing solitaire..
Well, are they? If just one of these groups, a few of these individuals, are striving towards the betterment of our nation, and are actually doing some good.. I say, we are already showing that capacity.
And your argument stands corrected.
*******
I don’t say we are there at the renaissance of our nation, nor are we even close to that.. I am just saying, and mind you this might be blasphemous to you, that we are showing that capacity to achieve, individual by individual, group by group.. and as long as these individuals exist, that capacity to achieve is there.
******
Why haven’t I produced an article contrary to your views. Because it has already been said in my comments here.
Why put a premium on articles, when it is the ideas and arguments that are important. As I have always said, comments are as valuable in the blogging world as the article itself.
I never said they didn’t, Nick. They do exist, I agree. The questions are:
:D In what proportion?
and of course…
:D Where are the results?
Btw, when I issued the question of the lack of any articles to dispute anyone’s “dissing” of Pinoys (whether it be me or anyone else) I wasn’t talking about you specifically. The point I make is really this: note that it is exceedingly easy to “diss” the Pinoy but apparently hard to prop up her dignity convincingly and coherently.
So I agree that they exist. And to respond to this observation of yours:
They are there beavering away quietly. I’d say that the Tsinoys for the most part embody this. Their volunteer firefighters, for example, continue to shine and put to shame all other Pinoy firefighting teams.
For every one of those you cite above there are thousands — maybe tens of thousands — of their compatriots who will undermine them.
And thus…
… this one’s an easy one. I have a strong opinion about this. But maybe I’ll leave it up to the rest of this forum to tell you (and me) whether my assertion that the Philippines is a pigsty is mere perception or undeniable REALITY.
So if there is anyone out there who has an opinion about this, tell us with a straight face.
Is the Philippines a pigsty?
;)
Honestly, I cannot connect in terms of what really is the gist or theme of this rather nonsensical prose. It just does not make sense.
I cannot get any idea from it, forgive me than what has already earlier written – however again, rudderless like a ship bound to go aground.
“Is the Philippines a pigsty?”
My answer is NO! Because the Filipino people are not swine. We are people!
Ok, consider the literal aspect of the question answered then. So let’s go to the part where a bit of substance needs to be invoked, shall we? :D
Look around you brute, see the beauty instead of the shit, and you will see the difference what is a pigsty and heaven.
I’m sorry for the hominem.
That is substance you are looking for.
I think the Seychellois are a perfectly wonderful people. For one think they don’t eat that gunk, poi, so beloved of the Hawaiians.
I don’t think we should get down on the Seychellois just because some people are going through a forty year identity crisis, like every college freshman born of Pinoy parents in the US and Canada.
These young folks, bless their hearts, have these intense soirees see, in which they speak to each other in what sounds like perfect Californian but stare at their indio looks and ask transcendentally deep questions like: “What does it mean to be a Filipino.”
Well okay Benigz, here is my answer: “SIRIT”
Maybe you can tell us the answer to this Sphinx-like riddle of yours?
[This better be good after all the breathless anticipation of the audience, the Master Realist approaches the mike with eager hands, his eyebrows twitching with concentration, his lips trembling to divulge his magnificent, creative wonderful insight into what i means to be a Filipino!]
Tough luck, gramps, coz guess what: I don’t know the answer either.
Kaya nga nagtatanong e.
I can answer UPn’s question though: I just tell my kids that the Philippines is the country where their mom and dad where born.
Simple.
How about you, gramps? What would you tell your kids considering that you don’t know the answer either?
:D
I have no problems admitting that my ignorance has always been greater than my knowledge and that the gap is ever increasing despite my most earnest efforts to reduce it. There are many questions we cannot answer (like, why is there something instead of nothing in the universe?) but we need not fret over that. Nor beat others over the head about it.
But hey, you should do more than tell your kids where in the world you were born, Benigz. You gotta bring them here and tell them all these good things you’ve been saying about THEIR race.
Your kids are just as Pinoy as the people you’ve been berating.
There’s all the more reason we should not believe you. I bet your kids aren’t half as bad as you’ve been saying Pinoys all are. Coz they are Pinoy and you are Pinoy.
Look in the Mirror, man!
So I take it gramps, that for you, being Pinoy is genetic? That simply being born to parents who were born in the Philippines makes one Pinoy?
Interesting.
:D
I think being PInoy IS genetic AND cultural. It is probably already obvious to your children that they ARE Pinoy, at least genetically. Because they don’t look Scandinavian or Nigerian, and they know that your are Pinoy because you told them so. (Or have you been disguising yourself as Lars the Swede or Kunta Kinte from Tuguegarao?)
But what is your plan, Benigz? Are you gonna tell them more than where you and the Missus were born? Are you going to tell them that you ate bagoong and pinakbet and dilis with patis? Or are you gonna hide all the rest of the truth about yourself and your being a Filipino from your own progeny? Doesn’t it maybe already occur to them just by looking at you, listening to you and comparing you to the genetic phenotypes around them? Do they know you are a blogger? Do they read GetRealPhilippines and see your vituperative attitude to people who at least look like, smell like, and are genetically very much like them?
But share naman your secrets of such successfull non-Filipino parenthood raising non-Filipino human beings.
How in the world do you hide it from them? This deep dark secret about your own true nature as a Pinoy? And theirs?
And do you think it is healthy that you keep such secrets from your own kids?
But how do you engineer Nurture to subvert such a powerful Nature as you’ve alleged for all other Pinoys ? How is it that you’ve successfully turned your kids into non-Filipinos?
Look I won’t tell’em if you won’t, your secretly being a Filipino is a secret safe with me. I would not want to spoil your ambitious plan to turn your own kids into non-Filipinos, culturally if not genetically. By the way, have you chosen what nationality or ethnicity or identity you are shooting for? This non-genetic operation will not involve skin transplants or special contact lenses?
I just hope this is a benign procedure, considering what you might be condemning them to in case you fail and would have to apply much of the vitriol you foist on us, upon your own progeny.
Spare the childfren, and feel free to just take it out on us. I understand now where your obsessive compulsion to torotot the Filipino Race comes from.
The Couch is yours. We are all ears. This is a Safe and Friendly place, Benigz. Pinoys are hospitable, kind-hearted and understanding people.
to DJB and to Abe, Nick and leytenian: isn’t it true that more than 80% of kids-born-in-USA to Pinoy parents were not taught Tagalog (or any Pinas dialect) by their parents? [In contrast, the Vietnamese and the Chinese, likewise majority of kids-born-in-USA to parents from Spain, Cuba, Peru…also Australia and England :grin: ) were taught their native language/dialect by their parents.
FYI, i previously blogged about the Genetic profile of pre-hispanic (circa 1500 AD) inhabitants of this archipelago. On the Patrilineal side, we Filipinos are most closely related to the Ami tribe of Taiwan and the Southern Han Chinese.
I think being pinoy has little to do with genetics. If you think about it, the Filipino people are mainly composed of the Malay race that according wikipedia are Tawainese Aborignes, and some have chinese blood. There are full chinese blooded tsinoys. There’s a touch of Caucasian (from American and Spanish parentage) blood as well as a hint of indian, arab etc.
If this is the case, can we say Filipinos are Taiwanese, Malaysian, Chinese, American, Spanish, Indian, or Arab as well? I think a unique national character is evolved over time and this is what makes a pinoy. If we had an african child grow up in the Philippines, he’d be more Filipino than a Filam won’t he? He’d be able to speak tagalog more fluently among other things.
I think if Benign0 teaches his kids that the Philippines is where their parents were born – and that’s it – his kids would probably be completely Australian.
I also grew up abroad but I am pinoy because my parents instilled in us at a very early age what it is to be Filipino by teaching the language, the food, the culture. In fact, every year from aged 6 until 16, I participated in Philippine Cultural events where I performed Filipino dances and songs to the rest of our Filipino community as well as some locals of our host country.
But, if that kind of thing is absent with Benign0′s kids, genetics will play no role in the kids being Filipino just as genetics plays no role in the hypothetical african child’s being Filipino.
This is why I don’t understand how naturalisation of FilAms in so easy compared to other foreigners with no Philippine ethnic lineage. All it takes is for the FilAm to have a pinoy parent who was still a Filipino at the time of the FilAm’s birth. Someone correct me if I am wrong on that.
With that said, a lot of Filipinos that have grown up abroad are still very Filipino. I can say that many Filipino kids abroad are very aware of language and culture. Manila is like our Paris, Los Angeles and New York. We rely on Manila as our cultural inspiration. When I returned to Manila almost 9 years ago, a lot of people were surprised that I knew a lot more about That’s Entertainment and I am familiar with how the Palibhasa Lalaki and Ok Ka Fairy ko Sitcoms went. I knew a lot of Pinoy Pop and I could even sing and enjoy singing April Boy Regino much to the protest of many Pinoy friends who would proclaim I was “baduy” or “jologs”. I didn’t care. Growing up abroad anything that came out of the P.I. was good and, in my time at least, there was nothing baduy or jologs. That’s how we were brought up.
When I applied for my employment pass here in Singapore I stated Malay as my race in my application. I could have chosen Others and written down Filipino in the space provided but I wasn’t sure at the time. I found some people who did the same as me and some that did the other. I wonder what was the right way.
There it is, very clear already. benignO has totally severed his umbelical chord from his people and country. The cat is out of the bag, at last.
DJB can really be relied upon, as always, to enlighten us about some of the most unfathomable mysteries of this universe. Thank you, DJB.
benignO can continue labeling us swine in pigsty and we now know the reason why.
Based on genetic sampling of Filipinos, the combination is around 40% Y-DNA Haplogroup O1-M119 (the genetic marker of the ‘Austronesians’ which has replaced the obsolete ‘Malay’ label), 35% to 40% Y-DNA Haplogroup O3-M122 (the genetic marker most prevalent among Han-Chinese) and the remainder mixed including Haplogroup C3-M217 which is the genetic marker of the Mongols who are descended from the Australian Aborigines.
sorry, i meant ‘presto’.
Pardon my ignorance, but weren’t the Hans like the Mandarin-speaking, ruling class of Chinese society of lore and yore?
Better tell benign0 of a possible royal bloodline to Beijing before he totally disengages himself from his despised Pinoy lineage.
Phil Manila, yes. Many of us share a common male ancestor (who lived between 30,000 to 10,000 BC) with the Mainland Chinese.
Presto,
I think they are natural born rather than naturalized.
Tsk tsk, DJB. You simply make the question about what defines “Filipino” again.
I tell my kids we were born in the country known as “the Philippines”. Like the typical “expert” that you are, you try to make it more complicated than that. They eat my wife’s sinigang and pick up a few Tagalog words. That’s natural osmosis and something that you cannot prevent artificially even if you wanted to. Besides, why make them overly conscious of what ethnic background they come from? They can already figure that out themselves.
What about you? You still haven’t answered UPn’s question.