There’s a very interesting news item in US politics that political junkies in the Philippines might want to chew on. Two veteran US senators, Orrin Hatch, a Republican, and Chris Dodd, a Democrat, have in essence said Vicki Kennedy, the widow of Senator Ted Kennedy, can do a Noynoy.
Senator Hatch did not equivocate during his appearance on Sunday at CNN’s Sate of the Union hosted by John King. “She ought to be considered” (to fill the senate seat left vacant by the death of Ted Kennedy), Hatch said.
“I’m for it” too, Senator Dodd agreed with his colleague in the same program. “She brings talent and ability to (the Senate),” Dodd added.
Massachusetts votes a Kennedy to public office as a package deal. Supporters simply assume a Kennedy platform: if elected, a Kennedy will serve as a “champion for those who (have) none.”
It is a matter of history that public service is instinctive in a Kennedy politician, a fact in American life once again reaffirmed by political foes and friends alike during the memorializing of the Kennedy legacy as a result of the passing of the last of the brothers who lived long enough to become the “soul of the Democratic party.”
It is therefore no exaggeration for one to claim that Kennedy politics, those for instance addressing immigration, civil rights, health care, education, discrimination, voluntarism, etc, is actually equivalent to Democratic politics. Thus, should Vicki Kennedy choose to take up the challenge (a Massachusetts law will still have to be changed to allow her appointment before the special elections), not only that pursuits of the Democratic Party platform would be considered as given, her past achievements would also likely be seen as more or less secondary. The expectation is that she will carry the political torch in the Kennedy tradition, notwithstanding that she does not even carry a direct Kennedy DNA (she is of Lebanese descent).
Now, is it as rational for Filipinos to expect Senator Noynoy Aquino to carry on the Aquino legacy if chosen as their leader? Or you rather think it is as logical for Filipinos to believe that Noynoy Aquino as the next president of the republic would ignore the martyrdom of his father as well as the gains of the Yellow Revolution and deny restoring the political and constitutional civilities that have been undermined in the manner that his mother, Cory Aquino, restored the civil liberties and democratic institutions the Marcos dictatorship had taken away from them?
Let’s not forget that Filipinos have learned many of their democratic practices from their American mentors. But the fact of the matter is that majority of Americans still lack the sophistication in the way elites talk and think about politics. What we moreover know is that Americans in the main are not concerned with policy questions during elections (e.g., voting for specific economic or foreign policy) and more often than not, don’t even vote for “conservative” or “liberal” platforms. They vote with their guts.
So, does it make political sense at all if Vicki Kennedy does a Noynoy Aquino?
Popularity: 3% [?]
Vicki Kennedy is not a Kennedy. In fact, the expectation is that she/Vicki Kennedy will leave the Kennedy compound to return to Washington, DC.
But what about Noynoy doing a Caroline Kennedy?
very apt analogy, upn. on his own, if noynoy had been just an average promdi (not ninoy and cory’s son) i doubt he would have been a candidate for, let alone elected, senator. caroline kennedy, what can i say. in america, it’s hard to cover up mediocrity with pedigree.
Whoever the “we” is – am addressing “all of you – all of the we” – you are flat out wrong.
The recent elections actually polarized the policy issues, and runs the entire gamut of issues – http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/president/issues/climate.html
Then there’s the matter of gun control.
or there’s the philippine experts who lack the sophistication (and the access and wherewithal) on how majority of Americans deal with elitist politics – whether on the left or right.
vacuous – from voter to “experts”. can’t even get the facts straight.
quo vadis, FV
Yup mediocrity. Caroline Kennedy graduated Harvard and Columbia Law School.
Compared to our favorite pinoy lawyer what can I say? Her brother had problems passing the NY bar.
Compared to Philippine law schools Columbia is a well known diploma mill in the U.S.
Just ask Bencard…
Philippine law schools?
At the rate the law is being violated – makes you wonder what is being taught in Philippine law schools?
Filipinos are in need of heroes. This is the result of our disappointments with our Leaders. Noynoy Aquino has a good name.
But, we have not seen a good decision or political agenda that
he championed. He did not vote for the CARP. This can be an issue
against him by his political detractors. The family owned the
Hacienda Luisita in Tarlac. Too much Oligarchs in our political
mainstream. Good leaders, not moneyed leaders are what we need.
We are looking for good leaders who have no vested interests on our
political issues and agendas.
O heto, sample ng party platform – para sa mga ignoy – na hindi pa nakakita ng platapormang matino – hindi yung howshow – http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/president/issues/party-platforms/index.html
Now for those who don’t have CNN (or the Internet to be able to read CNN – on the issues that made or broke the candidates ) – here it is – http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/index.html
A breakdown shows that issues most important to American voters were:
Economy – 57%
War in Iraq – 13%
Health care – 13%
Terrorism – 10%
Illegal Immigration – 5%
Note that all these topics were covered in each platform.
The issue most important to Pinoys – tatakbo ba si Noynoy, wowowee, cel phone load.
How many Americans do you know? I daresay I probably know a lot more, and not one of them of voting age — NOT ONE — regardless of political leaning, state of residence (I’ve lived in 10), age, career, economic standing, preferred brand of toilet paper, or favorite football team EVER votes based on their ‘gut’. Joe America says he does, but he gets an asterisk, since I’ve not met him personally. The ONLY other exception is my wife’s (Filipina – naturalized citizen) aunt in California, who didn’t vote for Obama because “he’s black”. As Bencard is fond of saying in this forum, the American people are actually a lot smarter than they come across; I disagree with him on a lot of things, but not that.
You’re just plain wrong, old-timer. And your attempt to draw a parallel between Vicki Kennedy and Noynoy Aquino is pathetic. For starters, you ought to apprise yourself correctly concerning the law of the State of Massachusetts, the late Senator Kennedy’s own request to the state government regarding his replacement, and the likely political situation once a special election there occurs. If Vicki Kennedy is appointed as a fill-in, for a period that will be measured in months if not weeks, she can’t stand for the special election – that was the deal for a quick replacement (not necessarily her) that Sen. Kennedy suggested. The only Kennedy who has a legitimate shot at the seat once the election takes place is Patrick, and he’s in Rhode Island with multiple rehab skeletons in his closet.
Hatch and Dodd, on TV mere days after the funeral, are supposed to say what? Ask Orrin Hatch in six weeks what he thinks, he’ll have Mitt Romney in that seat so fast it’ll catch fire. Because you see, we’ve been through this before. Sonny Bono’s wife. Teresa Heinz. Paul Wellstone’s wife. Mel Carnahan’s wife. Sentiment wears off pretty fast, people start looking for some substance. Because we’re not as stupid as you seem to think we are.
Ben K,
Which part of America have you spent most of your time? Have I heard Chicago? Well, I’m not sure if what political scientist Philip Converse has said of America that Americans’ interest in politics could not possibly compete with their interest in sports is inapplicable in Chicago? Someone’s not claiming that Chicagoans are exceptionally ideological (or adept at thinking things political based on abstract principles) when he has written this:
I congratulate you and your circle of family/friends that belong to a small fraction of Americans (about 13 percent) who find ideological commitments in their political decisions. But until fairly recently, many of those in the majority not only would vote based on gut, they’d just ignore the political process by not voting at all.
I guess just as some US-based FV commenters, they did not vote for Obama because based on a carefully drawn matrix, they have come to a rational conclusion that the Obama platform did not make any political sense to them (if they cared to read the platform at all). Like your aunt, they apparently ditched Obama simply because he’s black.
btw, do you consider the Vicki/Noynoy parallel pathetic because Noynoy is at least a sitting senator who even as a teen-ager has taken up the cudgels to carry the fight of his father?
You seem to have missed the significant point in that quote of mine you used: The Daleys are people “who can understand what people expect from their government” and that “Ordinary folks could give a rat’s ass about the integrity of the system [so long as their are practical, perceivable results].”
That’s the basic question that all voters in the US ask: What’s in it for me if I vote for this guy? That’s the question that any voter anywhere should be asking. There’s an EASY way for a candidate to answer that question, which is to provide a platform that says, “I’m going to do this.”
No, I consider the Vicki/Noynoy parallel pathetic because for one thing, you are politicizing the death of one of my country’s greatest public servants for your own purposes, and I find that reprehensible and deeply offensive, just as I would politicization of Mrs. Aquino’s death, which is implied in your drawing the parallel you have. I find your discussion of Kennedy in this light even more distasteful than that, however, because although you could not have known, you have involved one of my personal heroes. (I met the Senator several times in person, as a consequence of my family’s relationship with Rep. Peter Visclosky)
And for another thing, the circumstances are completely dissimilar; your parallel is a non sequitur. For example, Mrs. Kennedy to my knowledge is not actively seeking to replace her late husband; if she were, then perhaps you would have a better simile to draw between her and Mrs. Aquino. What Noynoy’s politicizing of his own mother’s death for the sake of his personal aspirations has to do with any of that escapes me.
That’s actually a local candidate’s platform.
* Safe neighborhoods
* Food on the table
* Kids can go to school
Under each issue lies some considerable thinking on the part of the voters? For example in the recent “Jacksonville Journey” strategic planning – the issue of safe neighborhoods had varying proposals:
1 . Strengthen the Police Force – more xyz cops, in xyz time, with xyz budget
2. More schools – more schools/teachers/rooms, in xyz school district, with xyz budget
3. More after school programs – more after xyz school activities, in xyz school district, with xyz budget
On this issue alone, the public debate was rigorous given the state of the economy. In the end, Item 1 was bumped up in order to meet the shorter more immediate need of making the ‘hoods safer.
When election comes, all of that will be reviewed again. Woe to the elective official who didn’t select the other options.
Same deal for the other three issues.
A platform isn’t just about ideological commitments – it is an evaluation tool.
Thus, the amount of thinking put into each of these issues can make or break a candidate.
While it is true to say that the Philippines learned about the democratic processes from the Americans, the Filipinos have yet to develop the cultural base that makes such processes work. Sure one can learn about baking, but learning how to bake and actually being a good baker are two apples and oranges. Sure you know how the baking process works – but are you a good baker? Where’s the pudding?
Abe: What has Noynoy accomplished for you to say “…taken up the cudgels to carry the fight of his father.”? Over the past 5 years, I have not seen any bills or such stuff from senator Noynoy, other than sitting on a bill (the Senate version of House Bill 4256 filed by lone district Congressman Raul T. Gonzalez Jr.) and being on the losing side with regards appropriations for 2010-automated elections.
Of course, there is that great photo-op reconciliation with a Marcos.
UPn
i actually have the same question just after reading that line. Abe mention teenage years. not as senator. I really wonder what Noynoy specifically did as teenager. But you are right , he is a senator now. What did he do then?
Not published : what Noynoy accomplished in the struggle against Ferdinand Marcos. Available, though are these:
(1) legislation sponsored:
http://www.noynoy.ph/pubservice.php
(2)
http://www.noynoy.ph/platform.php
Noynoy’s “Platform”
For example a short list of the things am looking at – I want to know about Noynoy’s position (in favor or not in favor) on:
Abortion
Use of contraceptives, family planning
Health care
Death Penalty
Divorce (is he in favor or against divorce)
Teachers Pay and Recruitment (increase salaries vs bonuses only)
Early education (how much money will he spend or he is not in favor)
After school tutoring and outreach programs (will he fund or not fund such a proposal)
Is he in favor of teaching creationism in public schools?
What is his proposal on land for the landless? what does it entail (promise now, think later?)
As far as am concerned, he has no value to put on the table – except his family name and all the platitudes.
UP n, rego,
The parallel being drawn is obviously not between Ted Kennedy and Nonoy Aquino but between the widowed Vicki Kennedy and the orphaned Noynoy.
I have known Noynoy to have been openly engaged in the struggle to end Marcos dictatorship even before his mother was actively engaged at all in the same fight. Except for Jojo Binay, where were some of the current “presidentiables” during those perilous days of our nation?
Abe: I understand your enthusiasm over the years of the struggle against the Marcos dictatorship, but look at Noynoy’s legislative productivity and the issues he tackled. A resolution to conduct an investigation into the Dinky Soliman/Black and White Movement/ Baywalk arrest — no resolutions about missing students. My impression is that during his years in Congress (see the bills authored) Noynoy has demonstrated an uninspired mindset towards self-sufficiency, farming- and land-for-landless issues which suggests of a strong Hacienda Luisita influence and may lead to more of Pinas land being sold to China farming and investor interests.
And… what happened to your pro-Mar Roxas position?
I hereby make the following comment pursuant to my interpretation of the aforementioned blog post:
=========
To be citing similarities between the situations besetting the Kennedy and Aquino families is one thing, but to draw parallelisms from that and make a leap of logic to suggest that a widow of a great American senator is justified in exploring a possible political career on the basis of the winnability afforded her by the pedigree of her late husband AND THEN imply that son-of-a-hero Noynoy Aquino’s approach that echoes that of said widow is lent ok-ness by the interpretative speculation of the options of what an American political family embodied by said widow might explore in the near term, is just a sophisticated way of stating how the American-ness of an action or idea can lend assurance that its moronic version in the Philippine setting is ok too.
i like this comment better! :)
My apologies, Benigno, but original comment, unjustifiably inserted “gramps” to refer to Abe Margallo. Again, stick to the issue, the article, refer to individuals in a civil and non condescending tone, and all will be well. Stricter comment policy extends to all. Thank you.
Does censorship apply as well nowadays, boss?
No, just civility. We can further this discussion in email, so as not to veer away from Abe’s article. Thank you.
“What we moreover know is that Americans in the main are not concerned with policy questions during elections (e.g., voting for specific economic or foreign policy) and more often than not, don’t even vote for “conservative” or “liberal” platforms. They vote with their guts.”
i agree with B0. the reason people are pushing to discuss issues is because it will make for better informed voting outcomes.
all countries can do with more of that, USA or the philippines.
now, what do people use to vote? there is academic work on this. the recent work by prof gelman is illustrative (he has a book, red state, blue state)…
he asks the question: what explains american’s voting behavior?
http://bostonreview.net/BR34.5/gelman_sides.php
“Political scientists and economists have built models that forecast presidential election outcomes based on “fundamentals”—such as the state of the economy, approval of the incumbent president, and casualties during war—that derive from theories of voting behavior. These models show that the incumbent party does better when times are good and especially when the economy is strong.”
Abe and Ben K,
Let me explain that my “gut vote” is based on a great deal of study, of the man (character) and past performance (ability) and the promises (platforms). In the US, I watched CSPAN 80% of my TV time. Let me also say that I am a socially left leaning corporate conservative by career background and part-time creative writer by hobby. I aspire to free my brain from other people’s rigid preconceptions.
For many recent elections, I personally think Americans were presented with generally weak presidential candidates, so the choices have been difficult. Like, Kerry vs Bush. My gut said Kerry mainly because I didn’t like the Bush demeanor, which I saw as nervous and lacking confidence. There were aspects of each I liked, and aspects I disliked.
My gut decision with Obama and McCain was easy. A principled, diplomatic, articulate, personable, successful man, vs a nervous, flip-flopping, aged, former hero who lost his independent bearing and sold his soul to the conservative wing of the Republican party.
But 45 million Americans went with McCain, so no one in the US owns the key to perfect perception.
I think, broadly, most Americans are very much more engaged with issues than is the case in the Philippines.
Joe
I didn’t want to make assumptions but I was guessing that, whether you did it consciously or not, there was some process to your “gut” vote. I think it’s impossible for there not to be. I suspect that even my Tita Angie, if pressed (it’s not a conversation I plan on having, however), has some rationale behind her expression of non-support for Obama because “he’s black”. Strictly speaking, “he’s black” is a reason (a stupid one, true), and not a gut reaction. There’s no such thing. Mr. Margallo’s assertion of that, and his attempt to draw a conclusion from it, is invalid.
Obama was propelled into the White House in large part because of the “No More War!” cry. This same cry is rising in crescendo (at an accelerating page) as USA gathers around a sentiment that Afghanistan is not worth fighting.
maccain a “former” hero, joe-am? i didn’t know being a hero is a temporary status. just because you don’t like his politics, he doesn’t cease to be a true american hero. your preference doesn’t count at all, man.
Whether one chooses to regard someone else as a hero or not, and under whatever criteria, is a matter of personal opinion. People can form their own judgments about that, and need not accept unquestioningly what they are told. If Joe doesn’t feel McCain is a hero (by whatever standards Joe feels are right to apply), that’s his right. If you feel McCain is a hero, that’s your right.
then he should qualify his statement as his own, and his alone, not as a declaration or assertion of factual truism. the trouble with some people, including alleged “americans”, is the fondness for making “motherhood statements” as though they plucked them from the book of truth.
Ben K,
That is an interesting perspective, that heroism is in the eyes of the beholder. I suppose the adulation granted the Lockerbie bomber upon his return to Lybia is stark confirmation of the notion.
As for McCain, forget attaching words to him. It is possible to admire him for the strength of his commitment to survival in the VC prison and for his maverick stance as a senator. But cast his strength in prison against the weakness of giving up the independent thinking that was his signature . . . it is like he finally bent under pressure.
Then he did his little panic trip to Washington to throw wrenches in the work being done to stop the financial crash, rather irritating the inimitable Barney Frank.
At that point, he became too unsteady, too panicky, to be president, in my book. Not that I want an 80 year-old-dude there, either. The way presidents age, he would be 105 in about 6 months.
Joe
There will never be a “gutless” evaluation. But how advanced one’s approach is can be all about what proportion of said evaluation is accounted for by one’s gut and how much of it is accounted for by some kind of rational approach depending on the situation. Different situations call for different proportions of gut and rationality to be applied.
Our use of our gut was honed by millions of years of evolution whereas our faculties for rational evaluation can’t be more than 10,000 years old. So we naturally incline ourselves to our gut than to our rationality.
However, while our gut reaction (i.e. rapidly picking up data based on visual cues) serves us best in situations where a quick responses are needed (e.g. in a fight-or-flight situation or in an animated conversation), it is unsuitable for evaluation work that affords us the time to make a conscious and deliberate thinking through — such as in a campaign period that stretches across months.
Both gut reaction and conscious deliberation are operations of the brain.
no, gut reaction is an anal demand automatically made without “conscious deliberation”.
Bencard, don’t confuse a figure of speech with biology. Even a ‘gut reaction’ is a product of brain activity, unless you’re saying that part of your brain is located in somewhere else.
cvj, who brought up biology in the first place, wasn’t it you, my man? forget figures of speech. realistically, what originates from the gut? answer: crap. what originates from the brain? answer: ideas. right?
That’s the basic question that all voters in the US ask: What’s in it for me if I vote for this guy? That’s the question that any voter anywhere should be asking. There’s an EASY way for a candidate to answer that question, which is to provide a platform that says, “I’m going to do this.” – Ben K.
So, Ben K, you agree with this post of J_AG at mlq3’s:
To J_AG’s point, let me add the following. Prior to the advent of 401K, most Americans are clueless about the operations of the stock market. But the virtual democratization of securities investment through 401K has dramatically changed the landscape with ordinary Americans taking to heart how the market works. The reason for it: JoeAm now has a piece of the pie to protect.
Extrapolating from the foregoing, we could say that there is then a rational basis for the low level of political sophistication of Americans: the cost of being educated about how politics works outweighs the benefits; (unlike Filipinos who gets to experience firsthand “wealth redistribution” during elections) American voters do not get direct benefit from one candidate or another aside from assuming quite commonsensically that one vote matters but only immeasurably small. So, they tune out of political information or ignore the political process altogether.
In this particular regard, I take issue with this observation of Joe: “I think, broadly, most Americans are very much more engaged with issues than is the case in the Philippines.” I challenge Joe to experience taking ten taxi rides in Manila during GMA’s SONA. Chances are, as I have actually experienced, 5 out 10 would be tuned in to the President’s address. I’m not sure this also happens in NY.
. . . you are politicizing the death of one of my country’s greatest public servants for your own purposes, and I find that reprehensible and deeply offensive, just as I would politicization of Mrs. Aquino’s death . . . – Ben K
“Politicizing” is a loaded word but I suppose to get its import across, you have to show not just tell it.
To be citing similarities between the situations besetting the Kennedy and Aquino families is one thing, but to draw parallelisms from that and make a leap of logic to suggest that a widow of a great American senator is justified in exploring a possible political career on the basis of the winnability afforded her by the pedigree of her late husband AND THEN imply that son-of-a-hero Noynoy Aquino’s approach that echoes that of said widow is lent ok-ness by the interpretative speculation of the options of what an American political family embodied by said widow might explore in the near term, is just a sophisticated way of stating how the American-ness of an action or idea can lend assurance that its moronic version in the Philippine setting is ok too. – benignO
benigs, I think you are reacting by using your gut rather than making “a conscious and deliberate thinking through.” Please read my post again, and then show us if the whole rationale behind the post is about “winnability.” On the other hand, if only based on Nick’s “Thoughts on Kennedy and Aquino,” what’s wrong with ratiocinating about one iconic political family drawing inspiration from the other?
Obama was propelled into the White House in large part because of the “No More War!” cry. This same cry is rising in crescendo (at an accelerating page) as USA gathers around a sentiment that Afghanistan is not worth fighting. – UP n
Now the “gut team” finds a cheerleader.
To say that the demand to withdraw from Afghanistan is a “gut cry” is simpletonic or simplistic.
The calls to withdraw from Afghanistan are a result of sustained thinking – lots and lots of it. Scenarios, assessments, white papers, simulations in Cray supercomputers.
To present such sentiment as a “gut reaction” is absurd. Such sentiments were carefully thought of - not a kneejerk reaction or a fart that gushes out in a closed elevator full of people.
USA in Afghanistan is not a Pinas May2010-issue, so I give this link only for the curious :
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/26654.html
Mr. Margallo, again you are making a big stretch to call us stupid. Every American has as a personal interest, at a minimum:
*Concern about a source of income.
*Concern about the prices of the needs & wants that must be purchased with that income.
*Concern about his/her physical well-being, and that of his/her family, if he/she has one.
*An expectation that certain basic services — utilities, police, firemen, roads, trash, etc. — will be looked after properly.
That’s a minimum. That’s four complex issues affected by every election that people pay attention to. Some people pay attention to a whole lot more, depending on what their lives are like. How do you extrapolate that we are unsophisticated from that?
I note that you have no counterargument to my charge that you are politicizing noted persons’ deaths, as well. ‘Unsophisticated’, perhaps, is an easy charge to make when one is so familiar with it.
Ben K,
It will probably help if we try to juxtapose those minimum concerns of Americans to the “Liberal Vision” of the Liberal Party of which Mar Roxas is the President and Noynoy Aquino is the Executive Vice-President, to wit:
Visions are only good, when supported by a plan of action that is specific, measureable, relevant, and time-bound.
Without that plan of action – the candidate’s platform – on the burning issues of the day, Noynoy Aquino and Mar Roxas are still bozos.
For those who want to see what an honest-to-goodness platform looks like – check out the 2008 Democratic National Platform.
Table of contents pa lang – nagmukhang tartanilya na nakatabi sa Lamborghini ang LP.
So, BongV, are you also saying those sophisticated American voters have religiously perused the 2008 Democratic National Platform and then upon “conscious and deliberate thinking through” decided that “Well, this is plain Marxism; we’re going Republican and for McCain”?
btw, you can also access here, the details of LP’s Policies for the New Century along with the Economic, Political and Social programs.
Abe: If you missed the results of USA election-2008, McCain lost. A number of Republicans and independents abandoned McCain, one evidence is that Obama won Virginia. Whereever you may have gotten the marxism issue, it apparently did not become a USA-election-2008 issue.
If you missed the results of USA election-2008, McCain lost.
O really? Maybe because he’s white.
Where ever you may have gotten the marxism issue …
Among others, from Sarah Palin and Bencard. And the other one …”He’s Arab,” from one sophisticated American voter.
Abe,
You know, you have a point. 45 million Americans voted for McCain. Now, they either had a very superficial understanding of the candidates and their character, achievements, and platforms . . . or they were just plain racist. Maybe some of both. I doubt they know who Marx was, other than the guy with the moustache and duck that used to come down from the ceiling with the secret word.
Joe
abe & joe-am, you guys are either indifferent, or clueless, since you could be just relying on what you read or see in your favorite leftist-liberal media. but the majority of americans are now wising up to obama’s sinister agenda as shown by the precipitous plunge in his approval rating from 67% in january to 46% now, barely 7 months since getting elected. with that, i guess i don’t have to enumerate to you the causes of his fall from grace, not the least of which is palpable evidence of marxist mindset. and, btw, that has nothing to do with your race mantra.
Bencard,
We go round and round. Liberals are citizens and do not have to fit into your narrow, intolerant box. Obama is falling in the polls because he is working diligently to solve problems, for the people. If the gun-toters panic and run out to buy bullets because they are afraid the Obama camp will clamp down on guns and ammo, they will criticize the man. Whereas I think he would be doing a healthy thing. You read your narrow literature, you claim your narrow claims, you cite your whacko Palinesque heros, and you disparage people who have good intent. Makes no difference to me, and makes to difference to Mr. Obama, I am quite confident.
Joe
A Marxist US president? Wow, doesn’t that sound more historic than a black American president? But would you care to define Marxism?
That also rings familiar. Marcos has accused Ninoy of being a communist.
The US economy is now Barack’s problem to solve — hopefully in time for the USA midterm elections.
Iraq is a problem Barack is solving — equipment withdrawal is ahead of schedule and troop-withdrawal should give Democrats an achievement to use for USA midterm elections.
Afghanistan is Barack’s problem — the numbers (USA casualties on the rise — Karzai corruption on rise, too) pose a threat to split the Democrats during midterm elections. Many are already asking for a withdrawal timetable on theme that Afghanistan is not worth USA soldiers dying.
I note that you have no counterargument to my charge that you are politicizing noted persons’ deaths, as well. ‘Unsophisticated’, perhaps, is an easy charge to make when one is so familiar with it. – Ben K
Well, if one charges you with something without any substantiation, you may either ignore the charge or deny it without substantiation.
“obama is falling on the polls because he is working diligently”. that’s a little odd, joe-am, isn’t it? i told you the american people is not stupid. they tried an unknown entity, made mistake, and saw it right away. now, they are in a correction mode.
abe, you were not born yesterday. i know you KNOW what marxism means. if not, i suggest you try google or wikipedia and connect the dots. it’s right on your fingertips, panyero.
Bencard,
Not odd, just factual. He screwed up by interjecting himself in the white police on black professor incident. People are worried and they don’t see progress fast enough. Their homes are still underwater and they want miracles. The NRA is huge, so speaks loudly. But THE MAN keeps on doing a good job, working hard. It is no big deal at this time, the poll numbers. If the nay-sayers such as you rise to the top again, America gets what she deserves. But I’m behind THE MAN 100% because I like what he is doing around the globe and at home.
Joe
Pañero, I’m asking the question because I know some very well-educated people, a couple of them lawyers, who are fond of using the term but for all intents and purposes they only have some funny notion of what Marxism really means.
Don’t you think the use of “palpable evidence of Marxist mindset” is a bit imprudent under the famous Bencard test – “show me the proof”?
Would you equate “palpable evidence” for instance to a recorded GMA sounding voice on a tape saying “yun milyon, yun milyon” as such evidence attesting the impeachable offense of betrayal of public trust, or the physical exhibit of a bagful of money for similar reason? Just to set the record straight, the current poll rating of President Obama has nothing to do with these things which a president of unprecendented unpopularity but whom you profess the greatest of admiration is palpably notorious for.
abe, in the world of politics and ideologies, “palpable evidence” is not quite the same as in a court of law. an accumulation of persuasive circumstantial evidence is enough to fathom a person’s ideological “mindset”. a “community organizer” who for at least 20 years of his life has associated himself with avowed “black liberation theologist” like jeremiah wright, radical extremists like bill ayres, bernadette dohrn, among others; appointed left-leaning ideologues to his cabinet, e.g. rahm emmanuel, eric holder, etc.; appointed as environmental “czar” a self-proclaimed communist, van jones; unusual friendliness with the likes of fidel castro and julio chavez; are just some of the things that, in my book, indicate a state of mind.
please, don’t muddle this discussion by creating a straw argument about the “unpopularity” of a president i admire. i don’t have to tell you, that’s not relevant, panyero.
If you want to wallow “in the world of politics and ideologies” and not in a court of law, why resort to language employed in courts of law like “an accumulation of persuasive circumstantial evidence” to prove a political point.” Make up your mind, Sir Bencard.
Besides, you are asserting a particular state of mind, i.e., a “Marxist mindset,” but, except by recourse to guilt by association, nothing in what you have enumerated seems to indicate it at all (not to speak of palpably) if at least you know how to define what or who a Marxist is in the first place.
what do you want, abe? have him shout to the whole world that he is a marxist? i don’t think i ever said that obama is a marxist. i said his past and present words and deeds indicate to me that he has a “marxist mindset”. fyi, the term “marxist” is a broad generic term. it has many variations, versions, modifications and nuances. (i have no time, nor disposition, to give you a crash course on each of them, so i refer you again to wikipedia).
Bencard, I’ll let off on this one. Although I just thought that it’s a bit flippant to “cram” when it comes to a great philosopher and revolutionary, like Karl Marx. Please, let’s cut it here.